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Author Topic: Display white point temperature to calibrate the monitor  (Read 36363 times)
Valeria Lages
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« on: May 07, 2009, 03:57:58 AM »

     Hello,

     Which display white point temperature I must choose to calibrate my  24" Dell Monitor (2408 WFP) whit X-rite Eye-One Display2 colorimeter?

     Eye-One2 application follows ISO 3664, that is to be used if digital images are to be edited on a display, independent of printed output. This rule says the standard monitor white point is D-65, that is 6500 kelvin and, so, the software recommends this medium way point to be chosen. In fact, apparently it seems to be the "white-plus-white", while others seems white-yellow or white-blue.

     There is another rule, ISO 12646, that is to be used if digital images are to be edited on a display and compared to printed output, and this one says the standard monitor white point is D-50, that is 5000K.

     I sell my photos to publishing companies and for that I first send them to the image editors who, of course, look them on a monitor too and then send them to an art editor who, obviously, work them also on a monitor. So, in this whole process we are all editing images on a display and, following ISO 3664, we all should have monitors calibrated with 6500K. Only the guy who will manage all images (my own and other photographer's ones that will be printed in the same publication),  in order to keep them in a pattern to send to the graphic, that must has his monitor with 5000K white point according to ISO 12646 once he will compare the images edited on a display to printed output. Am I right on my conclusions? If so, I must choose 6500K to be the white point display when calibrating it and that's all. 

    But when I edit images on my monitor to send to a minilab, should I still using the same calibration? I mean I suppose I will compare the photo paper copy result to the image I've worked on my display. In this case I should have another calibration having a 5000K white point display? And switch thought them depending on my use (if I send the image to a photo editor or a minilab), is that?  Even if photo paper and graphic paper are different materials, in both case I should use 5000K white point display to calibrate it?

    I 'd really thanks who could help me to understand this basic things or at least say if I'm in a right way...  I'd appreciate also an indication of a good Color Management book.

    Valeria

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peterkrogh
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 11:56:40 AM »

Valeria,
Short answer - 6500.
Books - Real World Color Management (I think this is still current).
For those doing CMYK, I strongly recommend Rich McCleary's CMYK 2.0
Peter
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 04:51:06 PM »

   Thanks, Peter. 

   So, I choose 6500K in all cases: sending my images to publishing companies, to be printed in minilabs or even in domestic printers?

   Only if I would send my images directly to a graphic (I mean CMYK files) I should edit them with a 5000K white point display. Is that?

   Valeria
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 05:25:36 PM »

    About the Color Management book suggestion: any title with Lightroom approach? Real World Color Management seems excellent, but it's a 2004 edition and there is nothing about LR on its content.

    Tks,

    Valeria
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 06:36:47 PM »

Valeria,
If you are not mucking with the files in Photoshop, then probably all you need to know is to profile the monitor.

If you are preparing for press, buy Rick's book. BTW, he has his own forum, and I suggest taking your questions there.

http://cmykbook.com/

Peter
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 11:54:04 AM »

      Hi, Peter,

      Sorry for asking again, but I've read ISO rulers one more time and I've seen ISO 12646 (that determines 5000K display white point to edit images if it will be compared to printed output) is * more recent * that ISO 3664 (that determines 6500K, independent of printed output). So, I'd like to understand why we, photographers witch images will be printed in publications, should use the older ruler, choosing 6500K to display white point.

      thank you,

      Valeria
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 12:14:14 AM »

Vleria,
I'm not a color management expert. It's my understanding that 5000 - 6500 is acceptable.
One reason it does not matter as much as one might think is that your eye adjusts to the color you're looking at.

Regardless of how you proof, there's still a need for the photographer (or pre-press operator, or art director) to be able to make a mental translation of the monitor color to print color, which has significantly less dynamic range.

If you want to get into this with someone who really knows, go over to Rick Mcleary's forum:

http://cmykbook.com/


Peter
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 03:03:30 PM »

      Thank you anyway, Peter. I will post my question at Rick Mcleary's forum.

       Valeria
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2009, 05:55:03 PM »

    Hi, Peter,

    Could you give me another suggestion of other forum where I can post my last question? I think cmyk 2.0 is not being up to date. I've register my inscription request five days ago and although I've received the confirmation of my demand, it has not been already confirmed. And besides, the last post at the forum was on 7 april...

     thanks,

     Valeria
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2009, 11:52:54 PM »

I'll ping Rick.
Peter
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2009, 11:59:17 PM »

  Tks, Peter, I'll wait for reply.

   Valeria
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Rick McCleary
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 12:17:05 PM »

Could you give me another suggestion of other forum where I can post my last question? I think cmyk 2.0 is not being up to date. I've register my inscription request five days ago and although I've received the confirmation of my demand, it has not been already confirmed. And besides, the last post at the forum was on 7 april...

     thanks,

     Valeria

Hi Valeria,
You have been approved for the CMYK 2.0 forum. Your account is now active. Feel free to take any further questions regarding CMYK and color management to that forum.
Rick

But, to finish the discussion here:
If the ultimate output for the majority of your images is print, use the ISO 12646 guidelines for monitor calibration (D50).
If the ultimate output for the majority of your images is on-screen, use the ISO 3664 guidelines (D65).
However, in NO case should you be switching back and forth. Select one white point and stick to it. As Peter alluded to, your eyes will adapt to whichever you choose (a phenomenon called chromatic adaptation.)
As an aside, my monitors are all calibrated to D50. My primary output is print - both CMYK and inkjet.

One aspect of this subject that is often overlooked is the lighting conditions under which you view your prints. That is just as important as the calibration of the monitor.
This subject is covered in significant detail in the book CMYK 2.0. I'd be happy to discuss it further.

Thanks,
Rick



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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 04:49:30 PM »

        Hello, Ricky, thanks for answer. 

        Under ISO determination, I've adjusted my work ambient light to 5000K and 32LUX.  This is the ambient light where I edit and develop images in the monitor. As I said before, I don't send my photos direct to be printed. I send to guides, books and magazines editors, who will choose witch images will be published among lots sent by many different photographers. So, that is not the lighting condition which I view the prints, but which I adjust, thought the monitor, images levels, saturation, sharpness etc.

        I know my eyes will adapt to any white point temperature I choose because the same parameters will be applied to my two monitors and so I will not "remind" any other white pattern when looking to display, but I'm worried about how the editors are going to look my photos, mainly when comparing them to multipliers photographers' images.  Because the white point of my photos will be more "yellow" and "dirty" than If I used D65. 

        Initially, it seems to me I should use D50 because my images will be published, as well as the editors' monitors should follow the same. But once the calibrator software recommends D65 and  everybody who I talk to - including Peter and others digital workflow studiers who have their images printed in books - tell me to use D65, I suppose the editors will be using D 65 also...  So, I'm afraid about the possibility of my images appears too "yellow" to them. If others photographers and editors are working with D65 and I with D50, my images are not going to be so attractive in a monitor as it would be if worked in D65.

         Why are people using D65 even if their images will be printed?  In order to look plus shining they send to editors images worked in D65, then the editor send them to the graphic producer and only this guy (who will compare proof to monitor's image) needs to calibrate his monitor to D50?

        Another view: if I work my images with D50 to send to the publishers companies, what should I do about the images that goes to my website portfolio? They will to be printed, only seen in a monitor,  so it would be better if worked with D65. I Know there is not an unique solution to this impasse because its related to two different uses witch require two different patterns, but if you do not recommend switch between different calibrations, how to solve it?

         Of course each one I decide for will have its pros and cons,  but it's being hard to make my mind... Maybe anybody else in this forum can help me to see something I'm not getting...  By the way, I will post my "drama" on CMYK 2.0 forum also.

       Valeria
 
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Valeria Lages
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 05:38:50 PM »

    ... just another point of view to think about:  if I edit my images to D50 while editors displays (and others photographers' images seen in their monitors) are adjusted to D65, there is the risk of my photos being reedited by anybody in the process looking for a lighter image in order to fit to the others images edited in D65. If it happens, it may become a problem once my white point started plus yellow than the others. Trying to get a cooler white point, my imagine files may be destroyed...

       tks,

      Valeria
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