High ISO noise reduction in LR3 Process 2010

[Charlie Dunton]

(Note: at the request of the original poster, I have retitled this thread. - Peter)


I finally download and installed LR3, based mostly on Michael Reichmann's LR3 guide which spoke of noticeably improved image quality. While it's way to early to speak overall on the new Process 2010, I did convert a couple of high ISO images I made recently at a theater concert. The results with respect to the new noise reduction routines were quite disappointing.

I shot the images with a Canon 5D/2 and the older 80-200 L zoom, referred to by some as the "magic drainpipe" for it's outward appearance and fantastic image quality, even wide open. In this case, I was shooting wide open at f/2.8 and ISO 3200. The performers were on a large stage with excellent spot lighting on them, and not much lighting on the stage itself. I was shooting at 1/250 or 1/350, which gave me ample hand holding ability and good 'exposure to the right' on the performers with the background going pretty much black. At the time, I was still running LR 2.7. I never participated in the LR3 beta program, preferring to wait for the final release.

I was blown away by the quality of the images when imported into LR2. Skin tones looked great with not a hint of digital noise. Even fine details like eyelashes looked crisp without any of the loss in resolution that I was expecting due to the high ISO. The midtones in their clothing also looked clean and the backgrounds were black with no noticeable noise. I printed a number of 10x15 prints and was truly amazed at the image quality. If someone had shown me the prints and asked me to guess the ISO, I would have said 800-1200 max.

Based on recommendations from the LR3 tutorial, I exported as catalog all 80,000 images from my LR2 database and imported them into a new LR3 catalog and let it rebuild all the previews. I never apply any LR presets on import. I use Image Ingester for import and may or may not convert to DNG as part of the import process. In this case the images were still CR2 files.

At this point I converted one of the 3200 ISO images into a 2010 processed file. Immediately, the smooth, pleasing skin tones disappeared and were replaced with a strong salt and pepper grain. The grain was so strong it was beginning to destroy some of the really fine detail. I checked the noise reduction settings and they were at the defaults of luminosity 0, color 100, and detail 100. My settings with LR2 were also the defaults of luminosity 0 and color 25. I played around with the detail and color sliders in LR3, but was unable to affect the salt and pepper look to any great extent. Only when I cranked up the luminosity was I able to remove the grain, but it was replaced with a very plastic looking skin. I continued working with the luminosity, detail, and contrast sliders, but was never able to get close to the noiseless look of LR2. Ultimately I backed out the 2010 process command in the history panel.

I'm sure there is a lot of finesse that can be applied in the detail panel WRT noise reduction. But I was amazed at how bad the default values looked based on the glowing reports I had see about the new NR algorithms in LR3. I've always done all NR work in Photoshop using Noise Ninga, which to my eye, is far better than I was able to achieve with the LR3 controls. Admittedly, they are new controls to me.

So, at this point, my plan is to ingest all high ISO work into LR2 first, export as a catalog, and import into LR3 so as to retain the process 2003 NR. Unless someone can tell me what, if anything, I'm doing wrong, or offer a better suggestion.

Thanks,

Charlie

[peterkrogh]

Charlie,
THe sharpening and noise reduction were among the most changed pars of the process version.  You don't mention sharpenss setting, but it's an intrinsic part of the process.

I used to sharpen everything at a default of 75. That looks fine in LR2, but is too strong for LR3.

Peter

[johnbeardy]

Echoing Peter's comments, and also I'd point to the masking slider which I seem to use more aggressively now (always toggling the Alt/Opt slider). The default noise handling tends to be less attractive, but the sliders let you get rid of problems and almost eliminate the need for specialist NR software .

John

[Charlie Dunton]

John and Peter,
First, let me apologize for not responding sooner. I posted this last Tuesday night, checked it on Wednesday afternoon, and then left for 4 days in Pennsylvania, away from a network connection. When I checked on Wednesday, there had been no replies. I just got back tonight and found both of your replies.

You certainly hit the nail on the head. What I was seeing was a very accentuated sharpening of the noise. Thank you so much for pointing out the interdependence between sharpening and NR in LR3. LR3 was picking up the default sharpening from my Process 3 images and using it with the new NR. It was not pretty. Dropping the sharpening back has put things right.

I certainly have a lot of learning/experimenting to do with the new 2010 settings.

Thanks to both of you for your help.

Charlie

[peterkrogh]

CHarlie,
No worries on the delay.  I've been working on projects that keep me buried, so I'm sometimes not getting around to answer stuff for way too long.

Yes, the PV2010 sharpening and NR do require a new approach, but it's worth it.  Revisiting older images produces results that can be much better, and have always been at least a little better for everything I've tried.

Also keep in mind that sharpening for prints is a lot more forgiving than sharpening for screen.  Stuff that looks downright ugly at 1:1 on screen can print up beautifully.

Peter

[Charlie Dunton]

  The segments on sharpening and noise reduction are now out in Michael Reichmann's LR3 video tutorial. This noise reduction/sharpening interactions make a lot of sense to me now. I've been playing around with images I made yesterday in Luray Caverns. They are also 3200 ISO images, but this time there are lots of quarter tones and shadows that need opening up. I'm starting to get a handle on the PV10 capabilities for NR and I'm quite impressed. Kinda wish I could redo the title of this thread.

Charlie

[peterkrogh]

Charlie,
I have gone ahead and done so.
Peter

[Charlie Dunton]

Thanks, Peter. 

Charlie