Two related questions

[JoeThePhotographer]

(1) Now that LR3 supports video, would it make sense to import photos and video into the same folder?  For the past year I've had them separated.  In fact, can LR3 separate photos and video?  I am currently playing around with the beta.

(2) I have LR2, Expression Media 2 and Photoshop CS5 and Premiere Pro CS5.  I am trying to resist also buying LR3.  Can you see the combination that I have working efficiently?

Here is what I'd like to do:

Use EM2 to ingest and catalogue photos and video.
Photoshop CS5 to edit and print photos.
Premiere Pro CS5 to edit video.
Bridge to browse eveything.

I am not sure where LR (2 or 3) fits into all of this.

I have never used EM2.

Thanks for your input.

Joe.

[BobSmith]

Lightroom can handle import, cataloging and probably much of the editing that you might normally do in Photoshop.  Once you get used to the workflow, keeping as much as possible in one application really simplifies things.  I've been a long time user of EM/iView.  I've pretty much dumped it of late in favor of Lightroom.  For cataloging I enjoy the fact that it handles larger catalogs just fine.  I have one large one instead of dealing with multiple smaller ones in EM.  While it's still more limited in terms of the types of files it can catalog, the addition of CMYK support for version 3... and movie support... gets past my biggest gripes.  It has improved tremendously during it's relatively short life and I expect that it will continue to do so.

Bob Smith

[JoeThePhotographer]

Bob,

From a DAM persepctive, does it make sense now to dump photos and video in the same folder?  It seems it would make it easier to see the flow of a shooting day, since typically photos and video are used on the same subject.  Or can I/should I have them in separate folders and have LR3 sort them by time as if they were in the same folder?

How well does LR3 handle video imports?  Does it do metadata for video?  Can you search for movies the same way as for photos? Can Adobe Premiere read the metadata written by LR3?

Joe

[johnbeardy]

In one way, I'd ask what you'd do if you switched your camera from raw to jpeg during the day? Would you move the jpegs? Obviously not. So although I don't shoot video (moving pictures will never catch on - you heard it here first) I would keep the workflow simple and keep videos in the same folders.

As for metadata, you can add metadata to videos in LR and it can search for the files - but I don't think it can write metadata back to the videos. That said, I can see why you'd want to do so. Is there an Exiftool for video formats? Maybe a plug-in author could do something.

John

[JoeThePhotographer]

In one way, I'd ask what you'd do if you switched your camera from raw to jpeg during the day? Would you move the jpegs? Obviously not. So although I don't shoot video (moving pictures will never catch on - you heard it here first) I would keep the workflow simple and keep videos in the same folders.

As for metadata, you can add metadata to videos in LR and it can search for the files - but I don't think it can write metadata back to the videos. That said, I can see why you'd want to do so. Is there an Exiftool for video formats? Maybe a plug-in author could do something.

As with photos, you want other programs (specifically Adobe Premiere and OnLocation) to read the metadata info. 

I don't follow you re: moving videos.  I'm not looking to move existing videos; just wondering whether it makes sense to dump (new) videos and photos in the same folder so that I can see them in sequence.  If I shot RAW and jpeg, I certainly would import them into the same folder, but that analogy is not 100% on point.

[BobSmith]

I almost never shoot video... so no expert here... but it seems to me that with video you are going to be more likely to be viewing/editing the files in a variety software outside of Lightroom.  I would imagine much of that software would work nicer when browsing a folder that doesn't contain piles of unneeded stills as well.  For simply browsing within Lightroom it shouldn't matter what folder the videos are in.  You should still be able to view them in order and without the stills if that's what you choose.  That part of the beauty of working in a DAM app.

Bob Smith

[johnbeardy]

I don't follow you re: moving videos.  I'm not looking to move existing videos; just wondering whether it makes sense to dump (new) videos and photos in the same folder so that I can see them in sequence. 

By "move" I'm just saying that once they're dumped by Import into the same folder as the stills, I'm not sure I see a benefit from moving them to another folder.

John

[JoeThePhotographer]

I almost never shoot video... so no expert here... but it seems to me that with video you are going to be more likely to be viewing/editing the files in a variety software outside of Lightroom.  I would imagine much of that software would work nicer when browsing a folder that doesn't contain piles of unneeded stills as well.  For simply browsing within Lightroom it shouldn't matter what folder the videos are in.  You should still be able to view them in order and without the stills if that's what you choose.  That part of the beauty of working in a DAM app.

Is it easy to view them in order if they're in different folders?

Can LR3 easily import them into different folders if they're coming off the same card?

I find the new import window to be overly confusing.

[JoeThePhotographer]

By "move" I'm just saying that once they're dumped by Import into the same folder as the stills, I'm not sure I see a benefit from moving them to another folder.

Bob mentioned one advantage to having them in separate folders.  The other is size.  Videos are much larger so you end up with lopsided folders if you mixe photos and videos (remember they're limited to 23 Gig).  I think this is the reason Peter recommended separating them out.

Of course, I am not even sure LR3 has the ability to separate them out, unless you're back to doing it in two steps which is not much better than using two programs.

[johnbeardy]

Yes, and I accept those are potential practical differences which I've not tested in practice. I'm just going on gut instinct and principle, and it strikes me that if one can keep everything together, that's a better starting point. But it could be a shaky "if".

LR3 has a file type field which can be used in smart collections or the filter panel.

John

[Lauren Singer]

Here is what I'd like to do:

Use EM2 to ingest and catalogue photos and video.
Photoshop CS5 to edit and print photos.
Premiere Pro CS5 to edit video.
Bridge to browse eveything.

This brought a question to my mind.
Can you really "ingest" with EM2 ?
I know you can "import" (or even drag & drop) files into EM2.
Then do many bulk actions, but I'm not aware of EM2 being used to ingest.

Can someone address this? Of the software Joe listed, wouldn't Bridge be a better solution?
Thanks, Lauren

[peterkrogh]

As to Videos and Photos in the same folder...

When I was just noodling around with video on my Panasonic camera, it was fine to keep them in the same folder. Now that I'm actually producing video, I'm finding that it's better to treat them separately. If you're really doing a video project, then you have a whole log process which is a lot of work.  You'll also probably generate a lot more data than can fit into an optical disc bucket. I'm finding that my workflow does not scale to video, when it's much more common to come back with 50 GB or more from a day's shoot.

We're working on some dpBestflow material to cover this stuff. (Hopefully, this will be with Richard Harrington, the author of the excellent From Still to Motion book.).

http://thedambook.com/blog/?p=206

While size-limited buckets are probably not workable for me for Video, there is still a lot of the theory that can be used in Video - depending on your need to transcode. Like raw file photography, the idea is to shoot the files and put them away in a safe place ASAP.  The editing is all non-destructive referenced file editing. 

We'll be working on some use of checksums to make hard drive more like write-once media for video storage.  There's a few kinks to work out, but it should not be too difficult for the still photographer to understand.
Peter

[JoeThePhotographer]

Thank.  That's very helpful.  I've actually been looking for some kind of a guide for photographers looking to shoot some video.

Joe.