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peterkrogh
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« on: November 12, 2009, 04:46:14 PM »

Anyone who spends time here is probably going to really like the new website I've been working on with Richard Anderson, ASMP, the Library of Congress and others, dpBestflow.  We've restructured a bunch of the content from The DAM Book, and optimized it for web. We've uploaded more than 30 movies, and have more on the way.

Check it out at www.dpBestflow.org

If you'd like to comment on the site, make suggestions, point out problems, please feel free to do it here.

Peter
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John Yaeger
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 10:41:21 PM »

Well done with your books and this forum and now the dpbestflow.org website work, Peter. 

For me, this digital jazz is much harder than letting slides and negatives accumulate in binders and file drawers. I'm finding developing a digital archive to be tedious, demanding and unrelenting work. Perhaps once it's really second nature, things will be better, but until then there is a lot that can go wrong.

The advantage to film, is that someone years removed from the photographer would still be able to view and or print those film images. Not so easy with a digital file that has not been migrated forward with technology. In spite of all the imaging devices we have at our disposal, and the countless images made (and tossed), without your and your collaborators efforts, Peter, we may be faced with future generations who don't have the Kodak moments available to re-live as earlier generations have been able to. Not because the images were not taken, only because they were not preserved in a usable form. I think it is far sighted that the Library of Congress and ASMP stepped up. Photographers, professional and amateur can all benefit from the work you are doing. I'm certainly not keen on re-inventing this wheel, nor am I  capable.

Thank you so much, for doing what you do so well. Bravo.

John
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 06:08:56 AM »

Thanks for the note, John. It's important to hear that all this work (sometimes overwhelming) is paying off by making a difference for photographers.
Peter
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mguoli
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 08:36:35 AM »

COMPLIMENTI Peter, the new site is amazing. The videos are so useful, is a realy step forward in the quality of learning.

I'm still so surprised that the preservation of digital data is a so underestimated theme by the photographic industry.
You are the only referent man for us in the world. And just 2.300 members on this forum (flickr group of Strobist: 64.000 users...)

I can not believe it... but this is reality.

Thank you so much for your effort and the quality of your work, Peter!

Marco
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John Yaeger
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 06:04:19 PM »

Hello Peter,

Perhaps you are aware, but just in case otherwise, the working files page on the dpBestflow site looks like a place holder which hasn't yet received it's content.
     home>best practices>file lifecycle>working files
Thank you again for all your work and for providing such a marvelous resource, Peter. Hats off to you, Richard Anderson and all.

John
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2009, 08:09:01 PM »

Thanks, John. Leeks like we did not turn off the menu item on the link page (it's off in the flyout). We'll have the page turned on before too long.
Peter
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BobSmith
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 06:37:17 AM »

Extremely well organized reference.  Love it!!  Now I don't have to re-invent the wheel when trying to explain some of these concepts to others... just point them to a key link on the site.

After the explanations here I think I finally understand how to effectively use hashes in an effective and efficient way.

THANK YOU!

Bob Smith
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 06:46:16 AM »

Bob,
Great to hear from you. As you use it for a teaching tool, please feel free to offer any suggestions about additions or new ways into the material.
Peter
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timhoke
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 03:51:38 PM »

I'll spend more time later digesting the entire site, but a couple of points.  On the Planning Overview page, the workflow decision points image is difficult to read (i.e. the font is small in the boxes).  I'm usually fine with a low res image as long as I can expand it by clicking it... can't seem to do that here.  FWIW, I'm on FireFox and run at 1600x1200.

Also, on the "flyouts" (Best Practices -> Color for example), the alternate text pops up and while it's informative information, it obscures the other menu items.  Not sure that there's a good solution for this one.

At first glance, this looks like a great source of information!

-Tim
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 06:37:48 PM »

Tim,
Thanks for the feedback.  The chart in the Planning page is straight out of Richard's book, and will be redone to match the look of the site (and will be more readable).  We're working through these as fast as Dan can.

I agree with the tooltips. They are annoying and unnecessary.  I'll ask our great Drupal guy, Jim Keller if we can turn those off.

Peter

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BoglePhoto
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 07:14:50 AM »

Peter,

I find the site extremely well organized and a great resource for information. I have started to watch the videos, and despite my thinking that after reading your book, and reading Richard's and Patti's book, that I have it down, I still learn something new or a different way of doing something that may be more helpful or efficient. Your links page has already helped in getting SMART monitoring on a PC, which I read about but did not have any program to run.

I look at the website as a primer and a distiller. It helps people work through the process to get going, yet for those already doing this, it is a great place to see what is new, what is out there, and what might work. You offer so many solutions, but don't overload the viewer with too many options.

I think it is essential for anyone working in photography today, and it should be a course of study at the college and educational level, as well as a business course, for every emerging photographer. You cannot ignore this as an essential skill, for if you cannot find or preserve your images, you are going to lose valuable assets, as well as expend inordinate amounts of time and frustration.

Thanks to you, Richard and Patti and all of those on the project. You have had a very busy and extremely productive year with the rewrite of the DAM book and this.
Wow.


Bill Bogle, Jr.
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JanRSmit
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 03:56:29 AM »

Peter,

First scan done. First impressions: Well structured, pragmatic, quite comprehensive
Congratulations to you and all others that participated.
Will take a bit of time to digest, working on it.
When digested in more depth will resond to poll on what more to include.


Jan R. Smit
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danaltick
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 09:22:53 PM »

Peter,

A belated congratulations on a site well done.  Been really wrapped up lately on the creative side and with Idimager, but plan to take a closer look as time permits.  Glad to see the forum coming back alive too.

Dan
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JanRSmit
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 01:21:22 AM »

Some reactions against the file format chapter of dpbestflow:

First of all i do support the dpbestflow initiative. Also i want to contributute in working this initiative in becoming more and more robust.
Asi am progressing through the material presented, on the file format chapter i doe have some comments:

Just a small note: In the overview it is mentioned that raw files are actually greyscale. In fact they are not "greyscale", but "monochromatic": one value for a given colour (actually a color bandwidth: Red, Green, Blue)

DNG is not a standardised raw file format but a published format(amongst others being an assembly, a container, a wrapper)that requires conversion of the existing proprietary raw image file-formats to match the structures as published:
It can hold the original raw file(mozaiced)
It can hold a derived processed JPG (as a result of processing ??something??)
It can hold all XMP formatted data (EXIF, IPTC, XMP)
It can hold a de-mozaiced file (TIFF-EP) (also called as linear), thus rendered.

So compared to the concepts of "unrendered (raw)" versus "rendered" as introduced in this chapter simply means that DNG can fit in both.

As such its capabilities (image data, metadata, assembly)are published, the de-mozaicing is not, nor the processing of the included JPG!

Conversion of a proprietary raw file to a DNG format is by definition a conversion, and as such literally stated by ADOBE: (DNG-Primer-manufacturers.pdf), to stipulate:
Conversion of the proprietary raw image data structure into TIFF-EP structure
Conversion of the file conversion instruction into the DNG metadata structure (the information needed by software applications to convert the file)
Note: The (image descriptive) metadata part covers EXIF, IPTC and XMP.

The proprietary "disadvantages" are still present:
- The DNG metadata specification allows for extensions to contain proprietary metadata,so reduces the projected advantages of DNG as a "published standard".
- Versioning is a key element of DNG specification to provide means to evolve, thus one gets also into the upwards/downwards compatability, as well as that no one knows how long a particular version remains supported, not exactly suppoing the archival advantage suggested.
- the conversion to DNG is not completely "lossless", as quoted by ADOBE in the above mentioned publication: "It should be noted that the Adobe DNG Converter will not necessarily maintain all of the private metadata in certain camera-specific raw formats because this information is not publicly documented and therefore not available to Adobe.However, the Adobe DNG Converter will maintain all of the original image data as well as all of the metadata needed for a high-quality final conversion. Arguably, the private metadata is not really archival, regardless of the format used, simply because it is undocumented. Nevertheless, Adobe recommends that, when photographers use the Adobe DNG Converter for archival purposes, they should maintain both the resulting DNG file and the original camera-specific file."

So basically, only if a camera manufacturin completely follows the published format, without any proprietary data captured as well, it is indeed a open, standard raw file.


Jan R. Smit
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 05:33:57 AM »

Jan,
Thanks for your feedback. I agree that there is some language that needs to be cleaned up on that page. I'll talk it over with Richard.
Peter
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