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Need Recomendation for DAM software
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Author Topic: Need Recomendation for DAM software  (Read 21629 times)
rogerhoward
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2009, 03:24:12 PM »

Pay to make it do already common things? welcome to enterprise software Smiley

In all seriousness... IPTC/XMP support: yep. Color managed derivative generation - yep,though that's dependent on the image toolkit you opt for (ADAM, like most enterprise DAMs, integrates with a variety of toolkits for media transformations - from image processing to video encoding to similarity fingerprinting, etc), I believe all the common options support fully color-managed processing pipelines.

$100k may sound like a lot - and between you and me, it is! - but it's small beans for many "enterprise" consultants who seem to charge by the character. The key to good support of an enterprise app is having a strong, media-geeky developer on staff who can do a lot of these things internally. I've personally seen estimates for integration work by DAM consultants on an enterprise project that were well north of 100k, but which (when we balked) took an on-staff developer less than a month to build, with arguably better results.

But in the end, yeah, you will - no matter what vendor you go with - end up paying for some things which you just cannot, for the life of you, believe you have to pay extra for. But you're also getting "for free" (meaning, as part of the base license) lots of things which you simply couldn't pay someone to add to lesser products. It really comes down to a hard, honest assessment of priorities and requirements - if robustness, scalability, complex metadata and security models, a rich API are baseline requirements you'll pay dearly for those, before you ever get to look-and-feel stuff.

-Roger (straddling the line between sanity and enterprise DAM)
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Roger Howard
rogerhoward
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2009, 03:28:15 PM »

Pay to make it do already common things? welcome to enterprise software Smiley

In all seriousness... IPTC/XMP support: yep. Color managed derivative generation - yep,though that's dependent on the image toolkit you opt for (ADAM, like most enterprise DAMs, integrates with a variety of toolkits for media transformations - from image processing to video encoding to similarity fingerprinting, etc), I believe all the common options support fully color-managed processing pipelines.

$100k may sound like a lot - and between you and me, it is! - but it's small beans for many "enterprise" consultants who seem to charge by the character. The key to good support of an enterprise app is having a strong developer *on staff* who can do a lot of these things internally. I've personally seen estimates for front-end work by DAM consultants on an enterprise project that were well north of 100k, but which (when we balked) took an on-staff developer less than a month to build, with arguably better results.

But in the end, yeah, you will - no matter what vendor you go with - end up paying for some things which you just cannot, for the life of you, believe you have to pay extra for. But you're also getting "for free" (meaning, as part of the base license) lots of things which you simply couldn't pay someone to add to lesser products. It really comes down to a hard, honest assessment of priorities and requirements - if robustness, scalability, complex metadata and security models, a rich API are baseline requirements you'll pay dearly for those, before you ever get to look-and-feel stuff.

-Roger (straddling the line between sanity and enterprise DAM)
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Roger Howard
peterkrogh
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2009, 06:19:02 PM »

Roger,
The shame here is that the department does not really need all that much - 1.5 full-time photographers' worth of work, web galleries and lightboxes. They're just trying to replace contact sheets, for God's sake.  None of the real capabilities of Oracle is necessary for this project.  And for $100k, you don't get any e-commerce - just a download folder of JPEGs that need to be billed separately.

It looks like ImgeFolio would do everything they need for a small fraction of the cost.

As to that cost, I really do think it's grossly inflated.  They charge that much because they can get some percentage of people to pay that much. Is it really possible that there is not some off-the-shelf configuration tools to make an Oracle database extract XMP data and map it to fields of the same name? 

The other thing I hear again and again is that these solutions don't work once they are delivered.  If you forget to spec out a small item, it could mean a costly change order.  For isntance, the applications they were suggesting - ImageMagik and Image Alchemy -  as best I can tell from the wensites, would not e able to extract the preview from the DNG. They would want to render the file from raw, which would be, um, wrong. 

Another thing that set off alarm bells was the programmer saying that everything was doable, even though he was clearly entirely unfamiliar with the technology. I mean, sure, everything's possible with unlimited funds and time, but that does not mean that you wuld want to go that way.  When I asked if they could point to an image-based installation that they had created before, all I heard was crickets.
Peter
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Pat Monaghan
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2009, 11:49:22 AM »

Just when I decide to try Imagefolio, now thier whole site is offline. This not looking good, I will hope they are working on the non-working links, not cleaning out the desks.
For my project, I am going to look at Expressions Media, Lightroom, DigitalPro 5, and perhaps Bibble as solutions for my use. And for the rest of my users, who need only to search and view, I'll see if I can make Picasa work. The Imagefolio advanced search looks good, but where did they go?
Pat
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Pat Monaghan
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2009, 11:55:14 AM »

So, I post the above, and decide to try one more time, and now Imagefolio is back. Somewhere, someone is laughing.
Guess I'll try to download the trial before it disapears again.
Pat
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roberte
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2009, 05:04:02 PM »

Hi Peter,

I ask because I've been involved with a consulting project recently with a large government agency. They already have an Oracle solution installed in the agency, and were thinking of opening it up to the photo department. The cost to get the system to harvest IPTC data from DNG files, make web galleries, and produce derivative JPEGs was quoted in the $100,000 range. This is *after* the system is already up and running agency-wide.

Have a look at Piction.com. They work with Oracle and SQL databases with clients around the globe.

-- Robert.
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 05:09:26 AM »

Robert,
I think the top this client wants to spend is in the $20,000 range. I'm betting that *anything* you do with Oracle is more than that.
And given all they really want are some smart web galleries, (searchable by event or subject, filterable by ratings) with download capabilities (produce a decent tagged JPEG out the other end), this is probably overkill.
Peter
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aniemann
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2009, 04:30:27 PM »

Thanks everybody for the various links to vendors in this thread. Funny how we all seem to be on the same wave at the same time. At the museum here we are finally starting to look at setting up an 'enterprise' level image database for the whole museum. I'm deathly afraid of it as what I've seen the artifact guys go through with their 'enterprise' level databases several times now is hair raising. Tons of money paid out and then it doesn't work as advertised and no-one wants to use it.

So a couple of thoughts if I may:

-ImageFolio, despite what I'm now hearing about the company's flakiness is written in PHP I believe. This should mean a fair number of programmers available in the community that could work on it even if the company itself goes south. Is this a correct assumption?

-Portfolio 9 looks really good in a lot of ways. Does anyone have first hand experience with it? Will it be capable of large collections in the hundreds of thousands?

-Lightroom as the initial ingesting, image manipulating/correcting and keywording tool for all photographers. Then feed this to something like MediaBeacon or ImageFolio which would pick up the xmp data and feed it to the 'masses'. Does that workflow seem reasonable or am I missing something?

Thanks so much, Andy



 
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cyangate
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« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2009, 01:57:28 PM »

Hi Andy,

About your workflow suggestion, it makes sense but there might be additional workflows that you may want to consider once the photographer is done. Depending on the industry whether it is marketing related or motion pictures or print publishing, there is usually the selection process that happens before the content is visible to the whole world. You may need to consider DAM products that do give you security features around assets. That means that the only the approved/selected content can be exposed in DAM through the security features of DAM. That will still allow internal staff to re-purpose the non-select photos for other purposes.

For the earlier comment on enterprise DAM, I agree the fact that they do not provide certain simple things that can be done by even the simplest desktop applications (such as Picassa). However, security, scalability and flexibility is what you pay for. Even though enterprise DAM costs a lot, the ability to mold it to your own needs justifies the price tag.

Bulent
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mistadas
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2009, 10:13:45 PM »

Pat this thread had my attention and I keep coming back.
Did you go with Image Folio and how did it fair ?
And has anyone used IDimager ?
thank  you
Anandadas
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Pat Monaghan
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« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2009, 07:55:38 AM »

Imagefolio - we couldn't get the demo to install on our server, and could not get a response out of Imagefolio support. If it's that hard to get them to sell it to me, I want nothing to do with it. I see nothing but trouble down that road.
My recommendation here is to:
Purchase LightBox Photo Gallery and run it on an internal server. My IT guy thinks that to run the $700 LightBox Pro version, it will cost him $10,000-15,000 to build a server to run it. I think he's nuts, but that's just my opinion.
Or
Use a hosting service. Something like Zenfolio for $100/year, could handle what we need to do. I would keep the orginals locally, and publish a catalog to the hosting service, if it gets hacked or the service losses it, I just upload a new copy. For my needs the full size files do not need to be available to others, people would request prints or files from me.

I made my recommendations a couple of weeks ago, no decision yet.
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BobSmith
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« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2009, 08:24:34 AM »

My IT guy thinks that to run the $700 LightBox Pro version, it will cost him $10,000-15,000 to build a server to run it. I think he's nuts, but that's just my opinion.

A new Mac Mini with Snow Leopard Server for $1K should run it just fine right out of the box.  You'd have to add Zend Optimizer but that's a free download and about two minutes to install.  I run Lightbox on a late model G5 with Leopard server and it runs just fine.  I only recently moved to Leopard server. I'd been running it on Tiger server on a lesser G5 (dual 1.8 with 2GB RAM) for a few years.

Bob Smith

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