~RAW=DNG not ~DNG (Why?)

[charlesBOEHM]

Here's an explanation of the Subject Line.

When I tinker (make an adjustment in ACR) with a RAW file the preview is updated in Bridge and EM2, but when if I convert to DNG and bring it into EM2 I need to do another similar ACR adjustment. Is this normal? I think this would mean I'd need to convert to DNG upon import from camera or after I sort/keyword in Bridge.

Charles

PS: EM2 looks like a very helpful piece of software; if I can get through all the nuances. Of course what would I ever do without ACR! and PS and THEDAMFORUM/BOOK(s)?

[danaltick]

Charles,

Do you have the "Update embedded JPEG previews" set (preferrably to Full size) in the ACR preferences?

Also, do you have "Use embedded preview" checked in EM's Media Rendering dialog?

Dan

[charlesBOEHM]

Yes, on both counts.

Charles

[danaltick]

Charles,

Are you using the Adobe DNG converter?  If so, do you have it set to generate the previews?

Dan

[charlesBOEHM]

Adobe DNG Converter. Yes.

I have confirmed all items you suggested and have just repeated using ACR on a RAW file in Bridge, then converting to DNG, then moving the file onto the EM2 window. That does ehibit the updated preview, but there are many (hundreds) images already in EM2 that have been adjusted and imported and are not exhibiting the updated preview. I may try to create a new EM2 catalog and move again converted image folders to the EM2 window. If this works well I'll delete the first catalog. I'll need to that anyway because there are many, many RAW previews that are accompanied with their associated xmp preview. (I did not have Unchecked Text Box in File>Catalog Importers! Why this in not in BOLD letters before importing into a new catalog I don't know; but it should be.) I attempted to send you a small 'capture' of an EM2 image plus xmp, but I clearly don't know how to perform that operation here in this message.

Charles

[Chris Bishop]

Possibly push them back through the Adobe converter (overnight?) It maintains folder structure and deletes the originals when finished, I believe.
Chris Bishop

[charlesBOEHM]

I tried what Chris suggested. Unsuccessful.

I have open in EM2 a folder containing 20 dng's that exhibit uncorrected Previews. These were brought in from Bridge corrected and converted a few days ago. NOW when I try Select All and drag and drop those corrected DNG's. from Bridge into EM2: Nothing happens!?? I tried to do the Import from Folders and Files but nothing happens there either. I have been able to drag and drop one or two, which remain corrected (Hurray), but I can't get all 20 into EM2. Yes they would be dupes, but I intended to delete from the catalog the uncorrected DNG's .

This is getting crazy. I want to get to working on pictures fro crying out loud. I was going to go to CS4 and LR, , but not until I'm confident with the software I already have. Why Add to my problems.

Charles

[charlesBOEHM]

The problem in my last message has been solved. I Delete>Remove From Catalog the uncorrected DNG pics then selected all 20 DNG's in Bridge and dropped them onto the EM2 window. Previews are now fine. Still need to decide how to rid the catalog of numerous xmp previews associated with the unconverted RAW files.

Charles

[peterkrogh]

Charles,
• A DNG may have no embedded preview at all
• A DNG may have a preview that was created with an earlier group of ACR settings, if Bridge/ACR is not set to update the preview
• Bridge will (almost) always show you the image according to the current ACR settings, regardless of the state of the embedded preview
• Expression Media will create a thumbnail for the image when first cataloged
• If your preferences are set to use embedded preview, it will use the embedded preview to create the thumbnail
• If you tell Expression to use the embedded preview, but none exists, it will create the thumbnail from the raw data in the DNG
• If you update a file with Bridge, ACR or LR after it's been cataloged by Expression, Expression will (most likely) not see the changed file until you select the file and tell EM to "Rebuild Item" which will harvest a new thumbnail.

Does that explain what you see?
Peter

[charlesBOEHM]

Peter and other Welcomed Responders,

I am on a roll! For the last couple hours I now have about half of my 6K pics converted to DNG with proper preview updates and saved RAW (on a separate HD partition. Better DAM cataloging needs to be implemented, but we're mov'n along well. Peter, I did not know that Bridge will (almost) always show you the image according to the current ACR settings, regardless of the state of the embedded preview!

Two problems existed after an installation of EM2 aside from acquainting myself with the menus.

         1. Unaware of File>Catalogue Importers [Text] Uncheck!
             This caused hundreds of xmp Previews subsequently eliminated with the simple Delete>Remove From Catalog (Took more time to find this out than it should have)

         2. I was trying to bring into EM2 DNG's with the same file name, although they were updated in Bridge. Clearing the EM2 duplicates solved that troubling quirk.

Don't know how to say this well enough, but Thank You, thank you all. I hope I can help someone else sometime.

Regards,
Charles

[Giuseppe Spagoni]

Hello to everyone,

Given the subject I'd like to submit some metadata conversion errors from NEF to DNG that I noted using Adobe DNG converter.

Generally I import my images using EM, make rating, metadata adding, keywording and then Sync export to files.

Then I tried to convert my NEF files to DNG in prospect to use this format as original file as Peter suggests in his books (read deeply both ones).

But when I imported DNG files with EM or Aperture I found three fields missing (of the set I use):

- Rating:     the number of stars I assigned
- ISO Country Code:   IT, UK, ecc.    (this is very strange)
- Contact (People field in EM):     John Wayne, Sharon Stone, ecc.   (I use this field in EM to match pictures with persons in it)

The issues above prevent me to use in my workflow to add metadata to RAW (NEF) files as first step and then convert to DNG (I decided to keep my NEF files nevertheless I'm trying to use DNG as "base" files, and I'd like to have metadata synced between them, at the beginning at least).

Have anyone noted the issues above?

Thanks

Giuseppe

24" iMac 3.06 GHz 4 GB RAM 1 TB HD - EM1, Aperture.

[peterkrogh]

Giuseppe,
If the files don't have sidecar files (fresh download) before you add this metadata, then you could try making a sidecar with EM, rather than a sync
(Action>Extract Metadata>Editable Files). NOTE THAT THIS WILL REPLACE ANY EXISTING XMP SIDECAR FILES AND LOSE ANY DATA THAT IS THERE.

The rating is not coming across due to Nikon SDK implementation - a quirk of the way Nikon's code works (this is the code Nikon lends to EM for use in file encoding/decoding)

The country code, I'm not sure of.  The IPTC Country is coming across, right? Since this is a backup file, maybe you can live without this, in favor of the IPTC Country?

THe People field is an EM field. I suspect that the Nikon SDK is just not writing this one as well.  I'd use Keywords for people, if that would be workable.  It wuld not be too hard to select all the images with the Keyword "Giotto Smith", and assign them to the "Giotto Smith" people field later.

 Peter

[Giuseppe Spagoni]

Thank you Peter for your reply.

I'll try to give further information about the issues experienced.

I'm not using sidecar with EM but making a Sync export to NEF files and importing them in another EM catalog I found again all the mentioned information: ratings, ISO Country Code, and People (catalog matching too!).
So, from this result we can infer that EM has written all this information in the NEF file properly, can't we?
I have another proof for this theory, I get quite the same result processing NEF files with DxO (quite because DxO drops me rating field).

Last, this is not a backup file, I'd like to import DNG file in Aperture and using this file as "master" file applying all PIE processing prior to export as derivative file (when necessary).
So it would be better to have all metadata information properly archived in the DNG file.

With generating xmp sidecar files are you suggesting that Adobe DNG Converter can read properly all the metadata from them during NEF->DNG conversion? (I can check it out)

Giuseppe

[peterkrogh]

Giuseppe,
As to sidecar files, here's the point.

If you don't have sidecars existing (say you bring in to EM fresh from the card), then you can *make* a sidecar with EM, and all data should export.  It wll then be in the DNG.

Whether Aperture, Lightroom or any other program will *show* you the data, is anther issue.

So, if there are no existing sidecars, then the best way forward is to make them prior to DNG creation. (If you want to make sure that all the data has gotten to the DNG, then you can open in Bridge, and go to File Info>Advanced and look of Expression Media XMP data. You should see the people fields in there.

Peter

[Giuseppe Spagoni]

Peter,

I tested as you suggested and with sidecar I got all the data into DNG after NEF-DNG conversion (tested with EM).

Doing some other tests with Aperture I definitely found out that Aperture reads properly metadata in NEF files, all fields included Contact (People to EM), ISO Country Code (but strangely labels this field Expiration Time), and so on, all but rating (it doesn't like this field, unfortunately).

Not the same for DNG files read from Aperture which show a lot of fields missing nevertheless were generated using sidecars.

So, to sum up:

NEF -> Sync Export -> DNG = Only a subset of metadata -> TO AVOID
NEF + SIDECAR -> DNG = OK, all metadata present        -> RIGHT CONVERSION

Aperture
NEF metadata: OK
DNG from NEF + SIDECAR: Only a subset

So nevertheless Aperture reads DNG file format it doesn't properly manage associated metadata at the moment.

I have to stay with NEF files in my workflow for now, also for other reasons which I'll face in other posts.

Thank you Peter.

Giuseppe