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Future of Expression Media
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Author Topic: Future of Expression Media  (Read 47709 times)
Absolute Chaos
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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2009, 08:02:50 PM »

Robert (Chaos),
Are you working on a wide-gamut monitor?
Peter


No, Peter, I'm working on a 24" iMac (matte screen).

The TIFF color management issue has been confirmed by Microsoft. (I guess they won't fix it any more).

Robert
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BobSmith
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« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2009, 06:06:16 AM »


The TIFF color management issue has been confirmed by Microsoft.

I just read through this thread again.  I still don't get what it is that isn't working.  Did you look at the link I posted... tifs, psd, jpegs of various color spaces that all look exactly as they should?  What exactly is Microsoft confirming?

Bob Smith
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mwall
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2010, 06:08:16 PM »

Peter, can you provide any insight on the original topic- future of Expression Media?

I ask up to the top as I hope you know more about this than the average person.  It's a standard part of my workflow, and it seems like a too well used of a product for it to be discontinued unless MS is just being punitive.  MS customer service will only say that it is not a discontinued product- nothing else.  I cannot purchase EM 2 from the MS Store web site.  I can only purchase this by calling the Microsoft Store.  Even though I own EM v1, in order to 'upgrade' to v2, I can only purchase EM v2 at full price (no upgrade).  If there are no malevolent purposes, then it seems that either iView/EM was put in the hands of an underperforming product manager or what could make $ for iView is not profitable for MS.  iView Media Pro was a great product being actively developed and with terrific customer service...until it was acquired my MS.

Please shed light if you can.
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2010, 06:20:46 PM »

mwall(name?)
Unfortunately, I really can't say much. I hope that Microsoft will make an announcement before too long regarding the future of the product.
In the meantime, it remains the best cross-platform asset manager, and the work you do there can be exported back to the file, so you can take it with you to other applications if you choose.
Peter

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mwall
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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2010, 09:29:59 AM »

Thank you Peter.  I agree with you, and I appreciate your attention.

-Mark
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ralphpaonessa
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« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2010, 04:49:44 PM »

In the meantime, [Expression Media 2] remains the best cross-platform asset manager, and the work you do there can be exported back to the file, so you can take it with you to other applications if you choose.

Peter,

I agree that so far EM2 is the best digital asset manager, especially with my large 50,000+ image collection in one EM2 catalog. Does Lightroom 3 change this at all?
I keep hoping Adobe will come to the rescue and fill the void left by Microsoft's apparent rude abandonment of EM2. But so far I'm not hearing that Lightroom 3 is dramatically improved over LR2 in the industrial strength DAM category. Perhaps MS will surpise us with some wonderful new product; but I suspect they are looking for a buyer for EM2/iView and haven't closed the deal yet.
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Ralph Paonessa
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Jay101
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« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2010, 12:34:41 PM »

I managed to find a D/L copy of Expression Media 2, but could find no way to buy it so I emailed Microsoft asking for a link where I could buy a key or purchase a version.  I got a reply in under 24 hours which was good, but the news was not......

>Thank you for your e-mail.

We are sorry but our website doesn't provide Expression Media 1 or 2 any
longer. But you are free to purchase Expression Studio 3 or Expression
Web 3 Full versions or upgrades. We are sorry for the inconvinence this
issue might have caused but we cannot assist you with this issue.

Please feel free to contact us if you should have any further questions.
We are happy to help.

Kind Regards,
Microsoft Store Team.

So then I go to Amazon as they show boxed versions in stock. Add a copy to my cart and check out - only to get this message (since I am in Australia)

>Important Message - Microsoft Expression Media 2 Mac/Win cannot be shipped to the selected address.

Nuts to them. And to MS.

I think I can set up a re-mailer address in the US so may need to try that - but wow, should not be this hard.  Awful to think MS may have killed a fine program too...

Jay.
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Dierk
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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2010, 02:34:16 AM »

For all practical purposes xMedia is dead - for some time now. How long ago they last did anything with/for it, 1 1/2 year? And that would be for a service pack bringing fixes for bugs that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Current xMedia 2 SP2 is still nothing more than iView Media Pro 3 with some minor [only partially working] additions.

Sad to say my guarded optimism has proven wrong, the naysayers were right: MS Killed the DAM Star.

The qualifier 'cross-platform' - which has never been a priority for me - doesn't really cut it any more. There may be two or three handful of photographers using a Windows- and a Mac-based system concurrently but the majority of users will have only one. Even if not, AFAIUI, Macs have no problem running Windows programs. And with all my personal misgivings about Lightroom, i.e. it being a souped up RAW converter not a DAM with RAW editing, it surely serves a lot of colleagues quite well. Over the course of the last few weeks I've exchanged xMedia as my primary photo hub with IDimager; it has niggles, like xMedia and every other software has, but it has a lot to offer xMedia has not. Now, if only keywording was as quick and easy as xMedia's ...
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Dierk

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roberte
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2010, 04:35:11 PM »

Hi Dierk,

I agree from a practical point of view Expression Media is dead in the water. Yes the Apple fanbois were right...

Cross platform is still important for me and my clients. DAM isn't practical in a virtual OS. You need your DAM app to run scripts to connect with other apps and the OS. Most low cost DAM solutions do not run well over a server in a mixed OS environment.

For photographers the choices are now Adobe Photoshop Lightroom, IDimager or Extensis Portfolio. Unfortunately none are as elegant as iView. On the horizon are Photo Mechanic and AtomicView.

-- Robert.
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Louie Sherwin
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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2010, 09:30:38 AM »

Robert,

It looks as though Cantos may have stepped in to the vacuum with a new release of "Canto Single User". This has been discussed over on the Controlled Vocabulary group. I don't know the history but it seems that the single user version  MediaDex. But that has not received much attention and is now being updated.

Here is the link to get more information. http://mydigitalassetmanagement.com/ They don't have a US distributor but I went to the Idea 7 site and was able to download the user guide. It looks to be very comprehensive. As far as I can tell it is a complete DAM solution. I have not tested yet but the documentation   indicates read and write IPTC and XMP to DNG, JPG and Photoshop files. The price is pretty reasonable considering all that it delivers. I will probably being downloading trial version sometime soon.

-louie
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billseymour
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« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2010, 06:17:00 AM »

Dierk, if you happen to see this, a Q:

Could you explain further how the iDimager keywording procedure is different (and not as quick and easy, to use your description) from EM's.

I am still working successfully in iView, but of course this cannot be a long term solution, since there is no product development at all.

Thanks-
--Bill
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Dierk
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« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2010, 03:20:48 AM »

I know that Hert is following this, the main developer of IDI, so, he will hopefully chime in with his description of the ideal keywording process in his program. Actually this should probably be split off and put over into the IDI board in this forum. Let me also say that I have been using IDI as my secondary database for specific features until a few weeks ago.

Background to my keywording woes:

- 3.2 GHz P4, 2 GB RAM, Windows XP Home, SP2, fully patched
- about 16,000 photos in catalogue, most of them keyworded with xMedia, GeoSetter, and Breeze Downloader Pro
- extended use of David Rieck's Controlled Vocabulary

xMedia, as you may remember, comes from the Macintosh platform, and is known for its really, really good, easy to use UI. As is often the case with Mac-developed applications they are quick and easy to use but in lieu of flexibility; IDI is a lot more flexible than xMedia, automatically making the UI a bit daunting. Hert's program uses several elements to show or change keywords - there's the Catalog Assignment panel [switched from Catalog Exporer], the Image Details dialogue, and a Label Assignment dialogue, which I only became aware of two days ago, when asking about a minor stumbling block I hit during keywording.

At first the Catalog Assignment panel seems to be ideal to quickly assign keywords, it supports drag and drop, quick assign of a block of keywords [several ways!], keyword hierarchies. Unfortunately this is only useful if you start from blank, have only a couple dozen keywords, or have a highly stratified, normalised list of keywords; best would be a fully controlled vocab with your two main languages in one hierarchy [English plus your native language or most useful secondary language in one set, i.e. 'Graugan' and 'greylag goose' under 'Anser anser']. You can search for keywords, which is very helpful for long lists - bear in mind that I several ten thousand of them -, but this is very slow on my computer; SQL is not particularly known for speed.

For the time being - no normalised keyword list, my own keywords and the CVK separate, photographing landscape, reportage, city/architecture, and animals/nature, that is quite varied subjects - I prefer to enter keywords the way I've been accustomed to through xMedia. Notice the operative here: 'accustomed to'. Which doesn't work in Image Detail, for good reasons as Hert explained to me [though I don't quite understand why other fields in that same dialogue work]. I haven't found time, yet, to explore the Label Assignment dialogue, which might work just the way I like it.

Bottom line:
Keywording in IDI is not just different from xMedia, it's harder when switching programs, as IDI is more flexible and slower. Learning IDI needs a little time, you will be a little frustrated if you mix time-important tasks [clients waiting] with getting to grips with IDI.




PS: Be sure there's a lot of features easily making you smile happily, counterbalancing above mentioned aspects. Creating watermarks, for instance, parametric image processing via recipes, versioning [much better than xMedia], direct upload to several on-line networks [incl. Flickr and Facebook], support for Kodak's old PCD format [which xMedia incomprehensible lost between v1 and v2], and a lot more.
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Dierk

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Other: Nikon D2x, Nikon D200, Capture NX 2, Adobe Creative Suite 3
frankgindc
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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2010, 10:50:36 AM »

I think that the most telling thing is that you can go back on these forums 3+ years and see the same conversation:  ie. complete uncertainty about iView/EM, some expectations that there will be a hopeful announcement sometime soon, nothing really happening.  I think Samuel Beckett already covered this ground....

I use LR for my DAM and it fits the bill.  New version of Bibble might also work, but hard to justify switching systems unless absolutely necessary.....which I think is the main reason folks hang onto to EM.  It's really shocking to look at how they've handled that program over the last few years....

As for me, I would like to use my old version of EM for managing my videos, but one of the EM2 trial versions that I used apparently overwrote my license or something and now the license I have won't work.  And there seems to be no way to penetrate the EM people to fix that, so I gave up a while ago.

From where I sit, it seems that MS is treating EM like that old storage room that everyone has at their company:  tons of stuff in there -- from three ring hole punches, to files from people who retired, to systems furniture parts that don't fit anything; some is valuable and some is obsolete but noone wants to throw it out and noone will make the effort to go through the closet and sort it all out.

Take that with a grain of salt, since I stopped paying attention to the details on EM a while ago, but this "is there a future to EM" business has been going on for years.  And I think that answers the question.

Frank
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danaltick
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« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2010, 11:41:16 AM »

When it comes to catalog management, IDI is so much more advanced than anything else out there it's not even funny.  Naturally when an app has this much capability and sophistication it's going to take some time to get your head around it.  But if you're like me, once you do, you'll never look back.  I can't even begin to tell you how responsive Hert and the team has been for me.  The product just keeps getting better.  As far as performance goes, I'm really not having any problems there.  I have a 3.8Ghz dual core with 4GB ram and a solid state drive that my catalog resides on... works great.  With the new Label assignment panel and the new Label sets, keywording is a breeze.  Much easier and faster and more efficient than iView.  The only time I would say keywording would be slower than iView/EM is when you might want to create allot of new keywords at one time that do not currently exist in your catalog.  My guess is that due to the nature of SQL, you are forced to enter them one at a time, rather than as one delimited list.  I really don't find myself in that situation too often.  I find myself more often re-using keywords (or labels as IDI calls them) that already exist in my catalog.  And for me at least, I consider that a small price to pay for all the other benefits I'm getting from IDI's current database design.  Hope that helps.

Dan
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billseymour
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« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2010, 05:17:44 AM »

Thanks Dierk and Dan for responding to my slightly off-topic question on entering keywords in iDi. It sounds like the Label assignment dialog for entering existing keywords works pretty well. I will likely give iDi a try (finally), particularly with the discounted price offer through Feb.

Thanks again. --Bill
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