Future of Expression Media

[Absolute Chaos]

Let's keep our fingers crossed for Camera Bits (makers of Photo Mechanic) to release their long-awaited DAM app. In the meantime, I've just slowly and not-very-deliberately moved towards using Lightroom for nearly everything. I'm really pretty pleased with it despite its sloth in exporting and the non-exportability of Collections. I've been working setting up a DAM system for a client and reluctantly had them buy a couple copies of EM since, as we all here know its the best that is currently available, but we're holding off on more licenses knowing that a) EM may be doomed and b) competition is probably on the horizon.

-Doug

That's what I'm hoping for, too.

Expression Media doesn't even color  manage. I mean, I photograph people, and Tiffs are all overly red.

I think Microsoft is just a company that sucks, and this was my last purchase of anything Microsoft.

I wrote Anita that I actually should get a refund, and she agreed to that, but of course it never happened.

I have heard the best about Camera Bit's customer service.

I think Expression Media will just go away and die. I actually never used my copy. It's awkward to use and is unable to display images properly, so why bother. Just a waste of money.

Robert

[Absolute Chaos]

Thanks for posting that, Warren. Hm, "continue to provide support for Expression Media" doesn't sound like a kiss of life, does it?

None of us knows anything more though!

John

Didn't General Motors say a similar thing about Pontiac cars?

[dave robertson]

<Expression Media doesn't even color  manage. I mean, I photograph people, and Tiffs are all overly red.>

Are you sure about the lack of CM?  I have otherwise identical images in sRGB and Adobe 1998, they look good and the digital color meter utility gives me the same numbers on-screen for both (EM1 on a mac.) Maybe I misunderstand something and they're both identically wrong    Anyway I can see how a newcomer to EM now would probably be underwhelmed, it's stuck in a timewarp.  The amazing thing is it's held its own for so long without active development, and there's still no obvious heir.

Dave

[roberte]

Hi Dave,

Expression Media does have color management. In Preferences go to Media Rendering > Images and check Color match".

What Mr Chaos is writing about is a bug in EM.

-- Robert.

[dave robertson]

You're right, Roberte, that web and print versions of the same images are looking the same and correct within EM was suggesting to me that it's color managed.  I've never given it any thought and always assumed that was the case. Sorry that I was confusing!

[Absolute Chaos]

<Expression Media doesn't even color  manage. I mean, I photograph people, and Tiffs are all overly red.>

Are you sure about the lack of CM?  I have otherwise identical images in sRGB and Adobe 1998, they look good and the digital color meter utility gives me the same numbers on-screen for both (EM1 on a mac.) Maybe I misunderstand something and they're both identically wrong    Anyway I can see how a newcomer to EM now would probably be underwhelmed, it's stuck in a timewarp.  The amazing thing is it's held its own for so long without active development, and there's still no obvious heir.

Dave

Yes, I'm sure. It has been confirmed by Microsoft.  Maybe the effects on TIFFs tagged Adobe RGB are less obvious, but it certainly creates havoc on ProPhoto and WideGamut RGB files.

[Absolute Chaos]

Hi Dave,

Expression Media does have color management. In Preferences go to Media Rendering > Images and check Color match".

What Mr Chaos is writing about is a bug in EM.

-- Robert.

Well, if it is color managed, but the colors are not correct, the color management is not working, which is the same as being not color managed (or, let's say: the colors are wrong in a different way).

-Robert

[peterkrogh]

Robert (Chaos),
Are you working on a wide-gamut monitor?
Peter

[danaltick]

I don't think I would worry too much about color management in the catalog manager.  The catalog manager is really for proofs not color managed prints.  Use photoshop for that; at least until catalog managers mature a little more.  If you want good looking proofs of your master files, create sRGB Jpegs from them in photoshop and catalog them.  The DNG actually has this already built in.

Dan

[Dierk]

Dan, the point of CM is to have pictures look the same in every step of the work-flow, not to get good-loking prints. Proofs are a remnant of printing days before computers, especially designed to show the client how the printed matter will look like. Hence my reluctance to take soft proofs or even Cibachrome proofs or desktop printer proofing serious - as long as it is not the same settings for the same machine with the same inks on the same paper proofs are only approximate. If it is only me, always on the same computer with the same monitor with the same printer, inks and paper for output calibration and profiling is unnecessary [though convenient], since CM is done by my brain and experience.

For the time being it looks like anybody interested in a CM'ed work-flow cannot use xMedia. And when I write 'for the time being' I mean 'for the foreseeable future' as my impression is that Expression Media is dead like the Dodo.

[danaltick]

Dierk,

Yes I realize that is the point, but I typically don't concern myself with CM in my catalog manager.  An sRGB proof has been sufficient so far.  It would be a nice convenience to the workflow if it worked though.  I wouldn't have to create and catalog those sRGB proofs for my master files.  IDimager does have CM, but it has a few quirks that need to be ironed out; however, I've gotten it to work correctly for many of my layered master files.  Catalogs managers seem to have trouble generating the previews for certain layered master files though (e.g. those containing smart objects, alpha layers, LAB, etc.).  This problem persists even when I tell PS of maximize compatibility.  It may be a PS problem.

Dan

[BobSmith]

So what part of CM is not working?  Here's a test I just did:

http://www.accurateimage.org/gallery/em-cmtest.jpg

I took Atkinson's Lab test image, duplicated it and converted it to sRGB, ProPhoto and Adobe RGB version.  I saved each version as TIF, PSD and JPEG.  I also saved the original lab version in each of those file formats.  Only the LAB psd file caused a problem in EM.  All of the others display fine and look exactly the same... as they should.

I have always had problems with CMYK images in iView or EM but since those are always derivatives of properly displayed RGB versions so I just don't worry about it. Actually in an odd way it's kind of helpful.  If I see a thumbnail with really wacked color I know that's the CMYK version without looking at anything other metadata. Most of my CMYK images are untagged which adds to the problem with EM displaying them properly.  That's simply not a concern to me. 

Bob Smith

[Dierk]

Which OS?

[BobSmith]

If you're asking about my test it was done using Mac OS 10.5.8.  Expression Media 2 with service pack 2 installed.  I've never experienced any CM issues with RGB files in any version going back to iView on much earlier Mac OS versions.  I've only used Expression Media briefly on Windows but I don't recall noticing a different behavior and one would think it would be painfully obvious if CM wasn't working.

Bob Smith

[Absolute Chaos]

Robert (Chaos),
Are you working on a wide-gamut monitor?
Peter

No, Peter, I work on a 24" iMac.

The TIFF color management issue has been confirmed by Microsoft.

-Robert