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Problems using tifs in catalog
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Author Topic: Problems using tifs in catalog  (Read 8449 times)
jljonathan
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« on: June 07, 2009, 10:52:54 PM »

When importing tifs, they initially come in with only a tif icon (if I click on media, it gives a message about no importer)  and don't show in the catalogs fields area. If I select all and rebuild items, they now all show properly and appear in catalog fields. Is this correct? and is there a way to import so this takes place on import?
Doing a few more test led to this:
None of the tifs come in with their ratings or keywords etc. They appear in the catalog fine as list/thumbnails and media. But, no annotations. If I sync annotations, the only thing that happens is that the tif under file type with the small image disappears and leaves a grey tif with no number, but the annotations still don't come in. If I now rebuild item, the file type corrects itself by adding the number and image under tif. But, still no ratings or keywords.
When I take the same tif file and save as psd and import that, it comes into the catalog with everything. So, are tifs no good for catalogs?
I am trying to find out if I must use psd to save images in order to get all the annotations brought in to the catalog, or is there a way to use tifs. I know that I can bring in the tifs and then drag them into the catagories, but with psd you don't even have to do that, they come in complete as is.
Thanks
Jonathan
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 07:49:24 AM »

Jonathan,
You don't specify platform, which makes troubleshooting harder.

So the behavior you are describing is :

Import TIF
Image does not show, and no metadata is present
Select image and rebuild, and all metadata shows, and image appears correct

Import PSD
Image appears fine, and alll metadata is present

Is that right?

Does it always happen this way?
If you make a flat TIFF with no alpha channels, does it still happen?
Does this happen in a brand new catalog?
What system and versions are you running?

Peter
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jljonathan
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 09:57:08 AM »

Peter
Mac 10.5.7, CS4 11.0.1

No, the behavior is much stranger than that:

Import original DNG
Image shows correct, and all metadate (rating, keywords, date, etc) are correct

Import PSD of same file
All show correct as above

Import layered tif
Image shows correct (the other day I got an error message that said there was no importer available) BUT, no metadate (rating, keywords) but it does show the date that the tif was made in the "date finder" window, not the capture date which is what dng and psd show, and is what I would want to see-it also show the file type correctly

Import flat tif
Same as above, except since I made it today, it shows today's date in the date finder window

Only dng and psd show all correctly

Jonathan

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jljonathan
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 09:59:16 AM »

Forgot to say that this was a new catalog made today as a test.
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 10:06:24 AM »

Jonathan,
So the TIFFs show no metadata at all - that's the one and only problem?
What were you describing about reimporting and seeing new stuff show up?
Is the metadata there in Photoshop?

What applications have touched the TIFF?
Peter
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jljonathan
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 10:33:50 AM »

Peter
Right, no metadata, except as I mentioned they show file type as tif and the date in date finder (but it's the date they were made, not the original creation date-like the dng and psd files do)
I was referring to a image display problem that happened last week but seems to have corrected itself, where the tif image didn't show, only the icon (error message that there was no importer available), when I rebuilt the item it showed the image) but this stopped for now and the tif images show right away
Yes,  all metadata shows correctly in PS and Bridge
Jonathan
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jljonathan
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 10:42:34 AM »

Tried something else:
If I select the flat tif that I made today and sync annotations from original file, in the file type window it looses the tif marking and creates a new image icon with 1 for the button and no name for the type. If I rebuild the item, it reverts back, tif marked and incremented one file and the newly created icon goes grey and it looses the number.
This can be repeated over and over by rebuilding and syncing. I tried it also with the master tif and it behaves the same way.
Jonathan
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 11:10:52 AM »

Jonathan,
It does seem as though there is a problem with Expression Media (or perhaps Quicktime) parsing the TIFF file.  It could be something in the TIFF that makes the file difficult to read (Alpha Channels, bit depth, some other thing), or it could be something in the metadata that is choking the metadata parsing engine.  This could simply be something in the tag (like something that might show up if the file was appended with a metadata template in CS4 that was made with earlier versions of Photoshop or Bridge).

It would be good to know what system you're on, and some information about the TIFF. If you want, you can send me a downsized copy of the TIFF that shows the problem, and I can see if it replicates on any of my systems.

Peter

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jljonathan
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 11:18:32 AM »

Peter
Mac 10.5.7, CS4 11.0.1
How should I send the tif and what size would be best?
Thanks
Jonathan
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 11:35:16 AM »

Jonathan,
If you can replicate the problem with a very small TIFF (couple hundred pixels, for instance), you can just email me at peter at peterkrogh.com
Peter
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jljonathan
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 12:03:34 PM »

Peter
Here are curious further results from tests:
Save file as master tif or master flat tif UNCOMPRESSED - both come in perfect with all metadata as shown in Bridge and PS with date shown as creation date
Save file as master tif or master flat tif LZW - both come in perfect with all metadata as shown in Bridge and PS with date shown as creation date
Save file as master tif or master flat tif ZIP as before - both come in as before, no metadata and date shown is today
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 12:31:49 PM »

Jonathan,
So it is definitely related to zip compression, right?

Just like the old "doctor, doctor" jokes, I suggest you "don't do that."

(In case you are wondering, the date finder in iView first looks for IPTC data to determine date, then to EXIF, then to the file creation date.  So it is not finding readable metadata in the zip file, and is defaulting to the file creation date.
Peter
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jljonathan
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 01:41:39 PM »

Peter
I will take that advise and use the uncompressed or LZW tifs from now on.
Thanks
Jonathan
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