The DAM Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 25, 2013, 07:49:32 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Jan 9, 2012
John Beardsworth's new Lightroom site
Lightroom Solutions
27960 Posts in 5113 Topics by 2914 Members
Latest Member: imthedamstar
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  The DAM Forum
|-+  Software Discussions
| |-+  Lightroom
| | |-+  Lighroom Produces DNG's 2x the Size of SRAW1 files for Canon 5D Mark II
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Lighroom Produces DNG's 2x the Size of SRAW1 files for Canon 5D Mark II  (Read 2079 times)
mikewren
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 56



View Profile WWW
« on: May 13, 2009, 12:36:56 PM »

So this afternoon I finally addressed something I have noticed when processing SRAW1 files from my Canon 5D Mark II.  SRAW1 files are being converted to a DNG file that is almost twice the size of the native CR2 (RAW) file in Lightroom v2.3.  This is a huge filespace premium to pay for maintaining my archive in DNG.  A quick search of Google turned up nadda.

Also annoying but minor, CR2 and DNG SRAW1 files display as an image with 0 x 0 resolution, and no preview image is displayed in Finder in MacOS v10.5.6

Here's the down and dirty:

Original Canon 5D Mark II SRAW1 .CR2 file: 10MB

DNG, no JPEG Preview, Preserve Raw Image, Uncompressed: 57.2MB
DNG, no JPEG Preview, Preserve Raw Image, Compressed: 18MB

DNG, no JPEG Preview, Convert to Linear Image, Uncompressed: 57.2MB
DNG, no JPEG Preview, Convert to Linear Image, Compressed: 24.9MB

DNG, no JPEG Preview, Preserve Raw Image, Uncompressed, Embed Original RAW file: 66.4

Anyone else experience this and know of a fix, other than to not to be stingy with my bits and shoot full res RAW?



Mike Wren
Albany, NY
http://mikewren.com
Logged
mikewren
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 56



View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 01:58:01 PM »

I may have answered my own question:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1800719#1800719

Quote
The sRaw format is not covered by the DNG specification. When converting, it must be changed; in fact, the amount of data needs to be increased by 50%.

Yuck!
Logged
peterkrogh
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5682


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 03:36:44 PM »

Mike,
<pure semi-informed speculation>
The large part of this is the shortcoming of sRAW.  Unlike the Nikon small raw that the D2x produces (not sure what other cameras) which is a true raw image, sRAW is a demosaiced file. This throws out the benefits of raw, where there is only one channel of color data per pixel, and therefore the file can be only one-third of the size. 

It's my understanding that sRAW keeps the higher bit depth of raw as compared to JPEG, but it does so by demosaicing and downsizing the file. It also looks like there is some compression (probably lossy) applied to the image.

To make a DNG from this, the data gets expanded to full-res TIFF data, and then saved as a TIFF inside the DNG. If you don't want to recompress the data, you basically have to save as a TIFF, which accounts for the much higher file size.

It's possible that the DNG spec could be updated to simply copy over the image data from sRAW, but of course, applications that work with current DNGs would not necessarily be able to work with the new file in the way that they can work with current DNG files. I'm not convinced that sRAW will be around that long.

I assume Canon can't do what Nikon does because they don't want to pay Nikon licensing fees.  But sRAW is a kludge, at best, as I understand it. It probably makes sense for people who want to shoot raw, but don't want the full resolution, to just buy a camera that shoots a smaller file.

Frankly, I think JPEG XR makes a hell of a lot more sense as a downsized camera format that supports high bit depth. Camera companies like the format, and are behind it.  I think this means that sRAW will be a weird wrong turn that does not have a long market life.
</pure semi-informed speculation>

Peter
Logged
mikewren
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 56



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 10:42:18 AM »

Thanks, Peter, for your pure semi-informed speculation.  It completely makes sense based on the results that I'm seeing.  I'm very surprised I haven't read more discussion about the Canon sRAW issues here or elsewhere.  Now I have a new mantra to be evangelical about:

Always shoot RAW (but don't use sRAW)

Do you mind if I quote you on my blog (mikewren.com) as speculative reasoning as to why the resulting DNG's from sRAW are as large as full-res RAW?  I'd really like to get the word out in the photog community that, like shooting JPG, shooting sRAW with Canon dSLR's is a recipe for later headaches, especially for those just starting out and don't know any better.
Logged
peterkrogh
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5682


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 04:51:51 PM »

Mike,
Feel free to quote me (with caveats). You should be able to find out the truth of the matter (I'm pretty sure I'm correct) if you want to before going out on a ledge.
Peter
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!