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Questions from "The DAM Book" 2nd Edition
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Author Topic: Questions from "The DAM Book" 2nd Edition  (Read 68734 times)
danaltick
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« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2009, 07:22:47 PM »

Oh well, wishful thinking.

Peter, just want you to know as I begin to read the final chapter for the second time, your book has truly heightened my understanding and appreciation of the importance of DAM in this new digital age that has taken us all by surprise.  Thanks again for keeping the road paved as we move forward.  I'm very anxious to put into practice the new procedures the book has laid out so well.  First, I'm certain I never would have figured this out on my own (it's humbling to say the least), and second, I could never repay the amount of time you have saved me(us) on our unending quest for creative freedom.  I also can't thank you enough for your continued patience with my incessant questioning.  Your answers have truly been invaluable.  Who knows maybe one day I will actually start my second catalog ;-).  I must say though, I'm enjoying every minute of it!  I do hope you can make it back to St. Louis one day, it was a true honor and privilege to spend some one-on-one time with you on your last visit, and the crew here is in dire need of a refresher.  Anyway, I'm really looking forward to getting started on my ToDo list and taking DAM to the next level.  Thanks to you, it just keeps getting better and better ;-).

Keep shootin'
Dan
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 07:31:53 PM by danaltick » Logged

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peterkrogh
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« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2009, 07:30:15 AM »

And thank you, Dan, for all the time you spend weeding through the spam sign-ups for the forum.
I'm not sure how I could handle this without your and John's help.
Peter
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danaltick
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« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2009, 08:25:31 PM »

Peter,

Happy to help.

Dan
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danaltick
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« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2009, 08:13:40 PM »

Peter,

I didn't realize you could do this, but it does appear that with EM/iView you can drag and drop thumbnails from one catalog to another as well as export and import the metadata to XML files.  In the book you recommended syncing for transporting the metadata from satellite catalogs back to the masters.  Any reason why you don't use the XML or drag-n-drop method?

Dan
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2009, 05:24:51 AM »

Dan,
For drag between catalogs, are you seeing it update the information for existing photos?  THat does not work for me.  New images are added, of course.

I'm also seeing something funky with the XML import (testing on Mac at the moment). When I import from XML, it makes a new catalog.  I have not used this feature very mich, but that's certainly not how I would expect it to work.
Peter

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danaltick
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« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2009, 07:27:03 AM »

Peter,

The first time I tried the drag-n-drop after adding a few keywords, the keywords didn't show up in the destination catalog.  I went back to the source catalog and clicked on the little green check mark to save the changes, did the drag-n-drop again, and it worked.

It also created a new extra catalog for me when I did the XML import; albeit the catalog was empty.  It seemed to work though.  It carried over my keyword additions after saving them via the save checkmark.

Looks like my ToDo list (i.e. EM2 upgrade) has been temporarily put on hold while I spend the next few weeks preparing some images for delivery to a client.

Dan
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 04:22:34 PM by danaltick » Logged

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« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2009, 08:25:05 AM »

Dan,

A warning if using iView - which I still do on my XP desktop.  iView ignores the meta-data in the XML file in preference to that in the image.  This is logical for some of the data e.g. the Exif details - why would the shutter speed be different in the XML unless changed manually?  It is the keywords and catalogue sets that do not get imported from the XML.  I raised this as a bug with the iView team a few years ago, but nothing ever happened as Microsoft stepped in.  I was originally looking to see if I could convert catalogue sets to keywords via an XSL stylesheet and then importing the resulting XML file - it didn't work due to the above bug.  I don't know what the status of this is in Expression Media 2, as haven't tried it - only use this software on my Vista laptop when "on the road".

Another factor which would affect some is that for the XML import to work the images must be online.

Ian
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danaltick
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« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2009, 04:28:42 PM »

Ian,

It appeared to work for me for both keywords and catalog sets when I exported and re-imported the XML file to a new catalog.  I'm using iView Media Pro 3.  I'm only testing so far with one image though.  Maybe there is a problem with multiple images.

Dan
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« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2009, 11:49:06 PM »

Dan,

My comment was from memory, as I was at work at the time.  Back home I thought I'd test things out...

I created a catalogue of DNG files, added some annotations and synched the details to the files.  I then added a few more annotations and exported the catalogue to XML.  The behaviour I rememeber is that if your catalogue contained annotations that your image did not - and when I originally tested this iView couldn't export them to my then non-DNG RAW files - then when you imported from XML it preferred the annotations in the image over those in the exported catalogue i.e. you lost information.

Anyway I had my XML file and went to do the import and it crashed!  I get an error message telling me one of my DNG files is corrupt and it gives the chance to put it in the recycle bin and to tell iView what I was doing for their error analysis.  I've checked the XML file and it's valid.  Restarting iView I imported the offending DNG file and had no problems so it's not the file.  The error repeats if I try the import again.

I then fired up Expression Media 2 and imported the catalogue.  I get a page of DNG icons with a couple of thumbnails and then the import pop-up progress screen goes to indicate it has finished.  However my CPU is running at 100% and it is very slowly creating the missing thumbnails, starting at the bottom of the catalogue and working up.  It's also doing them at the default size and quality which are different than they were for the original catalogue - the XML file doesn't hold any information about the actual catalogue settings .  It also shows no progress details and there's no apparent way of stopping it, other than exiting the program.  However it has honoured the annotations from the XML that were not within the images, so Microsoft did eventually fix the bug I raised.

Anyway what I was trying to say is that, in iView at least, the import process is unreliable for me meaning that using the XML file as a backup for the catalogue doesn't work.  Therefore synching the meta-data to the image file whenever it is changed is a very important step in my workflow.

Ian
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danaltick
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« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2009, 08:51:33 PM »

Ian,

Thanks for this information.  Sounds like it's somewhat unrelaiable.  I may do some more testing on this once I upgrade to EM2.

Dan
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danaltick
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« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2009, 05:00:36 PM »

Peter,

Going to keep this thread going just because there might be some good info in it for others (even though I asked some dumb questions). 

After a very hectic summer, I'm preparing to get back to systematizing my DAM in prepartion for a major PC upgrade (basically going where no man has gone before ;-).  Or as my father-in-law use to say when playing pool, "A lesser man would never have attempted such a shot ;-)).

I'm thinking about creating a Utility Set in EM2 called something like "PIE Adjustments" where I will to collect any recently ACR adjusted images in my archive.  Periodically I will perform a validated sync of those DNG's to the backup archive.  These of course will not get re-burned to write-once media until the next migration, but just having a secondary backup may be a vialble work-around for EM2's inability to harvest the PIE adjustments.  I don't recall seeing this mentioned in the book and hopefully it hasn't already been discussed on the forum.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Dan
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 06:17:12 PM by danaltick » Logged

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peterkrogh
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« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2009, 07:13:13 AM »

Dan,
That's exactly what I do.
When I do this, I generally do it this way (using Lightroom, which saves a copy of the PIE settings):

• Put images in Utility Set grouping called "Reworked Images"
• Inside that set, I make a set for the date "090802"
• Add images to that set
• I send the images to a special Lightroom Catalog "Reworked Images" (I use this catalog for all image readjustments)
• Make changes, sync metadata and preview update to DNG
• Return to Expression Media, select all images in the "090802" set and rebuild previews

For my camera scans, I generally do this in ACR, since it offers the point curve that's not available in Lightroom. That goes this way:

• Put images in Utility Set grouping called "Readjusted Images"
• Inside that set, I make one for the date "090802"
• Add images to that set
• Right-click and send all images to Photoshop.  This opens them in ACR
• Make changes, update DNG preview
• Return to Expression Media, select all images in the "090802" set and rebuild previews

Backing up the PIE settings for ACR-adjusted images
There are a couple ways to do this.  If you have Lightroom, you could make a Lightroom catalog of all readjusted images, and then make sure to preserve the catalog. If you don't have Lightroom, then you can push the readjusted files into the backup drive with a sync program. As you point out, Dan, ideally you'd want to validate the primary copy of the files before updating the backup.

In the case of my Camera Scans, I don't perform the validation first, because
1. These DNGs aren't really the "originals". I still have the film negs as disaster recovery
2. I also have the DVD or Blu-ray backup of the scan.


idImager
It's my understanding that idImager will back up all the XMP, including PIE settings. I have not tested this (which should include a test of the restoration of the data, of course).
Peter
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danaltick
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« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2009, 03:34:52 PM »

Peter,

I'm testing with idimager now (have 30 days).  I must say, I'm dumbfounded!  I really had no idea how sophisticated and thorough idimager is!  From my first impression, it truly appears to be far ahead of iView (or EM2) in its capabilities.  I'm just now scratching the surface, but I'm definitely impressed so far.  Everything from PIE adjustment syncing (tested it by the way, it works), to a huge array of batch processing capabilities and web publishing, and full DNG support.  Looks like I'm going to have to spend a little time getting intimate with it before passing final judgement (need to look at performance too).  I've noticed that it only supports 5 colored label types, so can't use star rating colored labels; not really a big deal though.  The thumbnails can be rendered at 300% too, which allows for smaller thumbnail size as long as you aren't using them for serious proofing.  Looks like from the forum it can handle large catalogs http://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10246&sid=0e98281d3e758ca6ddd9625e2444dec9.  The forum appears to be pretty active too and looks like a version 5 is coming out later this fall; should be Win7 compliant.  If you buy v4 you can upgrade for free, so no problem there.  My biggest concern right now though would be the loss of my iView Catalog Sets.  I don't think idimager can harvest those.

Dan
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 03:37:23 PM by danaltick » Logged

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danaltick
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« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2009, 12:10:33 PM »

Doing a comparison of IDimager version 4 to EM2 here http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php?topic=4202.msg23344#msg23344.

Dan
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 08:29:17 PM by danaltick » Logged

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danaltick
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« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2009, 08:55:55 PM »

I wanted to make a note here about my archive structure.  For the most part I maintain the same archive organizational structure that Peter outlines in the book with one minor difference.  My bucket structure contains both my Originals and Derivatives which has been discussed in earlier threads.  To recap, my top level structure is currently called Photos_001, 002, etc. with each bucket having two subdirectories called Originals and Derivatives.  My job name folders and images reside in those subdirectories using the same linear directory structure outlined in the book for jobs.  Some buckets may actually have no derivatives in them, but newly created derivatives always go in the most current bucket again as outlined in the book.   The reason I do this is to keep my hard drive count to a minimum.  Currently for my archive I only need two hard drives instead of four: one for the primary and one for the secondary backup.  If you decide to go this route, keep in mind that it may create some problems attempting to run batch scripts on say just the originals in your buckets.  The script will have to have the ability to filter on a particular file extension, such as .dng.  The Adobe DNG converter does this automatically for raw files.  This will be important for me when the time comes to migrate my archive to the new DNG 1.2 specification.  Other than this minor limiitation and the fact that some people may just feel more comfortable having their originals and derivatives archived separately, I don't see any real problems going this route.

Peter recommends that the top level buckets be tied solely to the storage medium for reasons outlined in the book.  Therefore, when I consolidate my buckets into Blu-ray sized buckets, which I plan to do soon, my goal will be to tie them purely to the storage medium constraints.  Therefore, I intend to call them "Blu-ray_001, 002, etc.  If I had to do it over again, I would have called them DVD_001, 002, etc. possibly suffixing them with category information as Peter does.

Dan
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 08:58:56 PM by danaltick » Logged

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