Lobby Phase One for C1 support of DNG

[Rick McCleary]

Last week (2/26), Phase One announced a marketing partnership with iView.  Together, the two companies are offering a discount on a Capture One/iView bundle.  I can only hope that this forecasts DNG support since DNG is really at the core of a lot of iVIew's functionality in how it handles RAW files.  

But hope only gets us so far.  Action is required.  We have no idea what they are thinking, but we can certainly let them know what we're thinking.  Here is the name and email of Capture One's VP of Sales and Marketing:

Trine Voss
tvo@phaseone.dk

I would encourage everyone to email her expressing your interest in seeing DNG support by Capture One (sooner than later!).  I have just sent her an email.

Below is the text of my email.  

The most important message to convey is that without DNG support, there are fewer photographers willing to use C1.  With DNG support of C1, Phase One will greatly increase their market share.  It's all about the bottom line for these companies (as it should be - they're not in a charity business, nor are we.)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi Trine -

I am encouraged to see you partnering with iVIew in offering a Capture One/iVIew MediaPro bundle.  As I already own both of these, I won't be able to take advantage of the price savings.  However, I hope that this indicates Phase One's intentions to offer DNG support for Capture One.  I strongly encourage you to push your development people to make DNG support in Capture One a top priority.  

Here are a few reasons for Capture One to add DNG support:

1) DNG is currently the only "universal" RAW format.  This allows one file to be handled by a variety of programs ( iView MediaPro, Apple Aperture, Adobe Lightroom.)  

2) Currently, there are many photographers (including myself) who choose NOT to use Capture One because of the workflow implications.  Even though Capture One's RAW conversions are superior to those from Adobe Camera Raw, the lack of DNG support makes a properly archivable digital workflow so clunky and unworkable that the decision is to stay with Camera Raw.  To use Capture One in an archivable workflow, you must keep two parallel archives - one of ACR-processed DNG's that are archived in iView, the other of the original RAW files that can be opened by Capture One.  A totally unusable workflow - and out of the question for really busy photographers.  As I mentioned, I own Capture One and love the conversions, but don't use it day-to-day.  It's not worth it.

3) DNG's full-size embedded preview.  This is one of the core features of the format.  It allows the photographer to create an excellent hi-res JPEG of the image at the time of initial editing and rating that is embedded in the DNG file.  This JPEG is then used in a variety of ways:
   a) to create web galleries, the preferred way of delivering "contact sheets" to clients.  iView has a wonderful HTML engine for creating these galleries, but it only works well with DNG's!
   b) to create quick proof prints from within iView for client approval of composition and expression
   c) to create slide shows from within iVIew

4) DNG's embed XMP metadata.  This is the other core feature of the format.  Perhaps the single most important thing that must be done when editing digital images is adding metadata.  Rating images and adding keywords are critical to adding value to the images - basically sorting the good from the bad, and adding descriptive, searchable keywords to the images.  DNG embeds the XMP data rather than having it written to a sidecar file (as is the case with all other RAW formats).

In summary, DNG's ability to embed both a full-size hi-res JPEG and it's ability to embed XMP data make it the ONLY TRUE solution for a viable digital workflow.  Both of those features are at the core of iView's functionality.  Since Capture One is now partnering with iVIew, I can only hope (and strongly request) that Capture One will soon be supporting DNG.  It would be good business.  There are many photographers waiting for this.

if you have any news about this that you can share, I would appreciate a reply.

Thanks!

Rick

RICK MCCLEARY PHOTOGRAPHY
201 Orchard Drive
Purcellville, VA  20132
v  540-338-4895
c  540-454-7180
www.rickmccleary.com

[Rick McCleary]

I have received a reply from Phase One regarding DNG support.  Following is the text of the reply:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi Rick,

Thank you for your feedback.

We are fully aware of all the advantages of DNG, and there is no hidden agenda at Phase One. We want to support DNG and it has been a priority for some time now. However, we have been forced to push DNG support back on our roadmap due to other important priorities one of them was the launch of our three new digital backs P 45, P 30 and P 21. We are currently working on version 4.0, and I expect that we will be ready with DNG support in this version. Capture One 4.0 will be out later on this year.

I hope I was able to answer your question.

Best regards,
Trine Voss
VP Capture One Sales & Marketing
Phase One
Roskildevej 39
DK-2000 Frederiksberg
Tel: + 45 36 13 12 28
Fax: + 45 36 46 02 22
Cell: + 45 28 11 06 58
Email: tvo@phaseone.dk
www.phaseone.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So there it is.  She is saying that she "expects" tthe next version of Capture One will support DNG.  Encouraging, but not a slam-dunk.

For DNG to move up their priority list, we must keep up the pressure - squeaky wheel and all that.  If any of you are using C1 (or are interested in a broader choice of RAW converters), please send her an email requesting DNG support.  Again, the most important message addresses their bottom line - DNG support will allow them to sell many more copies of the software.

[dandill]

I recevied the following similar reply, in the context of my having switched to Raw Shooter Professional in the meantime, because of their DNG support.

Dan

***********

Dear Dan,

We are always grateful for the feedback we get.

Capture One will support DNG. We were planning to launch it by the end
of 2005, but it was pushed back due to other important priorities such
as the launch of our three new digitla backs P 45, P 30 and P 21. I
expect that we will be ready with DNG support in version 4.0, which will
be launched later on this year. I hope you will then go back to using
Capture One.


Best regards,
Trine Voss
VP Capture One Sales & Marketing

[peterkrogh]

I like the sound of that...
Capture 1 will support DNG.
In the meantime, I'll be telling C1 users in every group I speak to that they need to send similar messages.
Peter

[lucaswheat]

I just attended a C1Pro seminar today and the presenter from Phase indicated that C1 Pro V4 won't be utlizing DNG, but will have a patented similar file format (raw and info in one file, no more sidecar or folder hierarchy).

second day is tomorrow and i hope to get some more information on that.

[Rick McCleary]

...Phase indicated that C1 Pro V4 won't be utlizing DNG, but will have a patented similar file format (raw and info in one file, no more sidecar or folder hierarchy)...

Arrrrgggghhhh!!

Thanks for reporting this.  Please let us know what else you find out from the C1 folks.

RIck

[BobSmith]

I gave up waiting on Capture One.  I bought it primarily because it's super reliable and smooth for tethered shooting.  I figured if it ever got around to DNG  and modernized the interface a bit I might be able to use it beyond shooting.  Canon improved their EOS utility.  It now works quite equally well shooting into Lightroom or Bridge and offers workflow features that Capture One can't (realistic auto file naming controls and metadata input) touch.  When it became apparent that DNG support was becoming more and more of a pipe dream, I decided to sell my license (and have a willing buyer).  Contacted Capture One to find out what I needed to do.  The answer was that it can't be done.  The license says I'm stuck with the software and can't legally pass it on.  Gives me that real warm and fuzzy feeling about wanting to do more business with Phase One regardless of what files they might decide to support someday.

Bob Smith

[peterkrogh]

Robert Edwards told me yesterday that C1 will not follow through with their longstanding promise to support DNG. I had not heard any other specifics.

If it's true that they are going to a proprietary format, that is pretty disconcerting.

Can anybody point to official statements by the companny that makes a definitive statement?

Peter

[roberte]

Hi Peter,

We really do need official clarification from Phase One about DNG support. It seems to be on again, off again. AFAIK they want to support DNG but are having some problems. This is one of many reasons why v4 hasn't shipped. As a proof of concept there is a private alpha of v4 being shown that exports DNG.

Don't give up hope yet and please do keep lobbying!

-- Robert.

[lucaswheat]

hey robert and peter

the second day i probed further - C1 V4 will support DNG but the presenter indicated that Phase will use it's own DNG like format for exporting phase files. Robert indicated he has been talking to those at Phase further about it and probably has more information but that is what i have heard.

also it is not expected that C1 V4 will be out before 2008. so no more holding my breath - on to work on the workarounds with v.3

[roberte]

Hi,

Finally Phase One have said that in Capture One 4 "DNG support will be input and output".

-- Robert.

[peterkrogh]

Robert,
I hope that's final. Do we have any idea when this is supposed to actually ship?
I hope they implement it well. 
Thanks to everyone who asked them for DNG support, it will open up a whole new world for the program.
Peter

[Rick McCleary]

This could be a wonderful development, but I've learned to temper my enthusiasm until the real thing comes along.
(Is a full-size embedded JPEG too much to ask??!!)

Rick

[roberte]

Hi Rick,

Is a full-size embedded JPEG too much to ask??!!

Not at all. The more photographers that ask for it the more likely Phase One will embed/update a full size JPEG. Explain the real world benefits and how it works with iView - which BTW they still bundle with Capture One. After my earlier clash with the Danes I've taken a more gentle, diplomatic approach which they seem to appreciate.

-- Robert.

[Rick McCleary]

Capture One 4 beta is released.

http://www.phaseone.com/4/