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Metadata lost in PS CS4
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Author Topic: Metadata lost in PS CS4  (Read 37937 times)
99wasser
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« on: February 22, 2009, 10:09:38 AM »

Hi everybody,
I'm ingesting all my images with latest version of IIP (G5 Mac OS X 10.5.6). During ingestion, I convert the raw files to DNG. All of the metadata is visible in Lightroom (or Bridge).

When editing the image in Photoshop CS4, File info doesn't show any data at all. Scripts running in Photoshop CS4 using IPTC info aren't working anymore as designed.

Images ingested with previous versions of IIP didn't loose metadata info in Photoshop, although ingested with a specific metadata template on my own.

Is there anything I'm missing ?
Thanks in advance for your help or advice !

Patrick
Luxembourg
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 12:11:43 PM »

Patrick--

I have had earlier reports of incompatibility with PS CS4. Also, sometimes it's in the metadata itself. Can you try the original template shipped with II, with the original contents of the metadata preference panels?

Sometimes bad entries for a metadata field (e.g., keywords) can mess up the IPTC data.

--Marc
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99wasser
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 02:17:26 PM »

Unfortunately, things are worser than expected. I took some fresh shots this morning.

I'll try to comment the results of my test ingestions :
Test 1 : Metadata Preset = own / Master Preset = own --> no appearance of metadata, neither in LR 2 nor in PS CS4
Test 2 : Metadata Preset = default / Master Preset = default / entered some metadata for Rights and Photographer --> no appearance of metadata, neither in LR 2 nor in PS CS4
This is true for DNGs without embedded JPEG's

This is not true for DNGs with embedded JPEG's.
In fact, to my great surprise in
Test 3 : Metadata Preset = own / Master Preset = own --> metadata OK in embedded JPEGs in LR 2 and in PS CS4, metadata KO in DNGs in LR 2 and in PS CS4

I read the documentation once again, but I'm still convinced that I'm doing something wrong, isn't it ?

Need some help !!

Patrick, Luxembourg
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 03:51:55 PM »

Patrick,
There is a known issue with metadata being dropped from Bridge to Photoshop, even for files that have never been touched by ImageIngester.  I know several people who are seeing some or all metadata dropped.  I think this may have something to do with Unicode (I think the Copyright symbol is a possible culprit.)

My friend tried this:
Add metadata to Raw in Bridge
Metadata showed up in File Info and in Metadata panel
Open file in Photoshop, examine metadata in File info - some or all of it is gone.

Once we found this, we took IIP out of consideration - the problem is in the metadata handler in Photoshop or Bridge CS4.

If you see this, you might want to try to rebuild your metadata template from scratch.

Peter


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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 10:07:49 PM »

Peter--

Thanks for this clarification. I didn't know about the experiment that took II out of the loop.

--Marc
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 02:11:35 PM »

Marc,
I recently got a panicked call from a friend. He is not an IIP user.  We walked through the problem, and were able to replicate reliably using a Bridge template.
I should have thought to send you a note, after bringing you in on the first instance - sorry.
Peter
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lincolnbarbour
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 04:38:42 PM »

I've been on the phone with Adobe Level 1 Support for 2 hours about this very issue. I've sent them some of my files and they've elevated it to a priority issue.

It's an incompatibility issue with Camera Raw 5.3 and/or Lightroom 2.3 with ImageIngestorPro V3. Adobe is looking into it, but probably won't make an update to fix the problem on their end anytime soon.

When reading a file from Bridge or importing files into Lightroom, both programs will see the II metadata just fine. But any conversion of a raw file into Photoshop CS4 will strip out all the description and IPTC metadata.

If you're using Lightroom, you can use the export feature to save the metadata to a PSD, TIFF, or JPEG and the open the file in Photoshop. You'll get a warning saying some of the File Info will be ignored, click okay and all your metadata from II will be there.

I've tried a million ways to work around this, like editing additional metadata in Lightroom then opening in Photoshop, but no dice. This is only work around until an update from II.

I don't think CS3 users will have this problem. Can't confirm that, though.

Love to hear when this bug is fixed by Marc. It's kind of a pain.

Lincoln
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- lincoln
Gary Shackelford
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2009, 07:07:04 PM »

I'm having similar problems with lost metadata and PS CS4. My testing (probably incomplete!) suggests that the problem is an incompatibility between IIP 3.2.04, PS/Bridge CS4, and ACR 5.3.

My systems:
PowerPC Mac G4 w/ Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger, PS CS2 w/ Bridge 1.0.4.6 (ACR 3.7, DNG converter 5.3) and PS CS4 w/ Bridge CS4 3.0.0.0.464 installed (ACR 5.3, DNG Converter 5.3).
MacBook Pro (Intel) w/ Mac OS X 10.5.6 Leopard, PS CS4 w/ Bridge CS4 3.0.0.0.464 installed (ACR 5.3, DNG Converter 5.3).

My tests and results:
Ingest with IIP 2.4.03 on Mac G4 --> metadata entered by both IIP and by me manually in Bridge displays in Bridge CS4 and Bridge 1.0.4.6 and in File Info panels of both PS CS2 and PS CS4 (true for both pre-DNG-conversion NEFs and for DNGs).

Ingest with IIP 3.2.04 on Mac G4 --> metadata entered by both IIP and by me manually in Bridge displays in Bridge CS4 and Bridge 1.0.4.6 and in File info panel of PS CS2 (true for pre-DNG-conversion NEFs and CRWs and DNGs), but all metadata except EXIF data is stripped out of File Info panel of PS CS4 (true for pre-DNG conversion NEFs and CRWs and for DNGs). Same results when I ingest with IIP 3.2.04 on my MBP and use PS CS4 and related files.

Ingest with Apple's Image Capture --> metadata entered manually by me in Bridge displays in Bridge CS4 and Bridge 1.0.4.6 and in File Info panels of both PS CS2 and PS CS4 (true for pre-DNG-conversion NEFs and CRWs and for DNGs).

These test results suggest to me that the problem is an incompatibility between IIP 3, PS/Bridge CS4, and ACR 5.3 but not DNG converter 5.3 (metadata is also stripped in pre-DNG-conversion NEFs and CRWs opened in PS CS4). I sympathize with Marc for the position he's in, but this is a real pain. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to lay IIP 3 aside and revert to IIP 2.4.03 until this issue gets resolved. Please let me know on this forum if there is anything I can do to avoid this undesirable choice and stick with IIP 3.

One additional oddity that probably isn't relevant, but I might as well mention it: in the File Properties section of ACR's metadata panel, ingested RAW files are now listed as "Ver.2.0.1" rather than as Photoshop files in the Application category. This change from "Photoshop file" categorization seems to have occurred at about the time that I upgraded from PS CS2 to CS4, which was prior to the release of ACR 5.3, but I'm not sure of the exact time relationship. Additionally, at the bottom of the Description tab of Photoshop's File Info window, these same recently ingested files are now listed as "image/tiff" in the Format category immediately after being converted by ACR. Previously, they were categorized as "application/vnd.adobe.photoshop" in the File Info panel.

Gary Shackelford
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 07:51:26 PM by Gary Shackelford » Logged
Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2009, 10:06:49 PM »

Gary, Lincoln, and others--

Thanks for your detailed experimental results. I'm going to take a crack at this over the next two weeks, and I hope to at least isolate the problem. But, I'm not sure at this point that I will be able to fix it in II. I'll know that only when I know what the problem actually is. Even if it turns out to be a bug in PS CS4, I still may be able to come up with a way around it. Or, maybe not...

I'll post some answers in this section.

--Marc
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Massimo Novi
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 06:42:45 AM »

Marc

I made some test with CS4 and II 3.

The problem seems to be related to date format.

1) If an EMPTY date tag is written into the XMP:

<photoshop:DateCreated></photoshop:DateCreated>

then PS CS4 does NOT shows metadata in File Info opening from ACR.

2) If a date tag is written into the XMP in a format like this:

<photoshop:DateCreated>12/10/2009</photoshop:DateCreated>

then PS CS4 does NOT shows metadata in File Info opening from ACR.

3) If a date tag is written into the XMP in a format like this:

<photoshop:DateCreated>12-10-2009</photoshop:DateCreated>

or this (time added with a "T" separator - that seems mandatory):

<photoshop:DateCreated>2009-02-10T16:22:40</photoshop:DateCreated>

then PS CS4 DOES shows metadata in File Info opening from ACR.

So it seems Bridge accepts empty date tags (tag with no data) and personal string formats but PS does not.

For example this is a II3 macro for "date created" IPTC field that creates a date format that PS CS4 accepts:

{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,1,4}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,5,2}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,7,2}T{@datetime,10,2}:{@datetime,12,2}:{@datetime,14,2}

I made these time-limited tests for now but you can make similar tests to see if the problem is truly limited to date formats and tags.

Hope it helps.

Massimo
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 11:08:49 AM »

Can some users, especially Patrick, try Massimo's solution to see if it solves the problem?

Follow these steps:

1. On the II main window, choose Set from the Metadata Content drop-down.

2. Replace whatever is in the Date Created field with this (thanks, Massimo!):

{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,1,4}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,5,2}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,7,2}T{@datetime,10,2}:{@datetime,12,2}:{@datetime,14,2}

3. Ingest, making sure that the preset modified in step #2 above is chosen.

4. Open the ingested image in PS CS4 and verify that the metadata appears in FileInfo.

Thanks!

--Marc
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009, 08:06:27 AM »

Massimo,
Sorry, I meant to post this earlier - yes there is a (now) known bug in Photoshop.  The empty IPTC date field will cause Photoshop to disregard all metadata in the file. Now word on when this might be fixed.
By the way, this same data munching will happen with legacy (CS3 or earlier) Bridge templates if they are used with CS4.

Marc, you meant to say that you could use *either* this

{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,1,4}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,5,2}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,7,2}

or this:

{@datetime,10,2}:{@datetime,12,2}:{@datetime,14,2}

right?

Massimo,
I've been meaning to work out how to fix existing files that may have empty date fields.  Have you looked at this?  Approaches that might work include:
• Bridge Script (likely to work fine)
• Create a metadata template in CS4 that has a blank date field, and apply that (doubtful)
• Expression Media script

Peter
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 09:33:31 AM »

Peter--

I was just repeating what Massimo posted. Do we have confirmation that all of the following three work? Massimo has confirmed the 3rd.

1. {@exif.DateTimeOriginal,1,4}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,5,2}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,7,2}
      (The default when you press the Reset button in the Metadata/Contents panel.)

2. {@datetime,10,2}:{@datetime,12,2}:{@datetime,14,2}
      (Not that useful, as it only gives the time.)

3. {@exif.DateTimeOriginal,1,4}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,5,2}-{@exif.DateTimeOriginal,7,2}T{@datetime,10,2}:{@datetime,12,2}:{@datetime,14,2}
      (Both the date and the time.)

--Marc
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Massimo Novi
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 06:53:50 AM »

...The empty IPTC date field will cause Photoshop to disregard all metadata in the file. ....
I've been meaning to work out how to fix existing files that may have empty date fields.  Have you looked at this?  Approaches that might work include:
• Bridge Script (likely to work fine)
• Create a metadata template in CS4 that has a blank date field, and apply that (doubtful)
• Expression Media script
...

Peter,

I agree that a Bridge script should be the safest way (taking the EXIF file modified date and create a new date in the IPTC tag).

EM has a VBS script to copy the Exif CaptureDate value to IPTC DateCreated one. I tried now and works on NEFs and DNGs. The only problem is that it copies only the date, not the time (even if it reads it correctly) so it is probably less useful.

This script for Bridge was slighty adapted by me from one posted by Roger Horward (Thank You) sometimes ago on Adobe Forums:

#target "bridge"

syncDateCommand = new MenuElement( "command", "Sync IPTC Date to EXIF Date", "at the end of Tools","SyncID" );

syncDateCommand.onSelect = function ()
{
   var sels = app.document.selections

   for (i = 0; i < sels.length; i++)
   {
      var md = sels.metadata;
      md.namespace = "http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/";
      var dt = md.DateTimeDigitized;
      md.namespace = "http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/";
      md.DateCreated = dt;
   }
}


Save the bold code in a SyncIPTCDate.jxs file and copy the file in this path: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Startup Scripts CS4\Adobe Bridge

The "Sync IPTC Date to EXIF Date" item should appear in the Tools menu. Select the thumbnails to update and click on that menu time. The Date Created IPTC field will be updated with the Exif Time Digitized contents (date and time).

Hope it helps.

Massimo




« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 07:06:20 AM by Massimo Novi » Logged
peterkrogh
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009, 10:02:18 AM »

Thanks, Massimo.
I'll check it out on my end when I have a minute.
Peter
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