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Emailing & path issues
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Author Topic: Emailing & path issues  (Read 6537 times)
Stretch Tuemmler
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« on: January 11, 2009, 11:43:51 AM »

Hoping for some help with EM2 which is new to me.  I also posted this ? at the Microsoft Forum.

Emailing online files works fine.  But my offline files do not.  I don't get an error, just nothing happens.  Is there a work around.  I would think it could use the catalog previews. 

Another problem on files stored offline on DVD.  I click the "go to media" button but nothing happens.  I would think it would show the path.  If I go to list view it does show the path so it does have the info.

When I have files in the catalog but it's time to take them offline, what is the best way to burn a CD so the path points to the DVD.  Some files I will archive to DVD and keep on a hard drive as well.  Is there a way for EM2 to know that it exists in both places?  Or do I need seperate catalogs for actine/ online files and another that have been imported from the DVD.  Importing from DVD seems to be extremely slow.  I have upgraded to the SP1 patch.

Thanks in advance,  Stretch Tuemmler
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 03:31:13 PM »

Stretch,
Yes, it would be good for EM to make use of the mebedded thumbs and previews when the media can't be found. (You can export a thumb in the "Extract Metadata..." menu item in the Action Menu.

As to pointing to Cd/DVD, I strongly urge you to keep hard drive copies of everything you actually want to keep. Make the CD/DVD a backup. Optical media is a poor choice for primary storage for a number of reasons, one of which you outline here.  This is all outlined in the book.

Peter

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Stretch Tuemmler
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 06:25:28 PM »

We do store select images online on a Drobo which gets backed up to a Raid.  But the bulk has to get offline,  we archive to Taiyo Yuden DVD's, 2 copies.  One is stored offsite.  I have read your book but it's been a while.  But I will read it again.  We buy server grade (ES) drives when we can.  I have experienced trouble with drives that don't get spun up on a regular basis.  We have had a few times when DVD's have failed but the 2nd copy has always worked.  We also keep raws, layered and final files on seperate disks just incase.  Of course this is very labor intensive.  Maybe it doesn't make the most sense but what we have done to this point.

I understand the "bucket" thought but we still archive commercial jobs by client job # just incase the DAM goes down.  Which has happened.  Not to mention that sometimes it's just quicker to go to the job # and grab the disk.  Our personal files get archived by date.

Is it possible for EM2 to know you have moved a file to DVD ?  If so will it know if it's in 2 places if we also keep the file on an active drive ?  I'm thinking it won't do this.  So would you keep a seperate catalog for the files stored on hard drives and one for the files on DVD's ?

Thanks,  Stretch
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ianw
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 04:07:02 AM »

Is it possible for EM2 to know you have moved a file to DVD ?  If so will it know if it's in 2 places if we also keep the file on an active drive ?  I'm thinking it won't do this.  So would you keep a seperate catalog for the files stored on hard drives and one for the files on DVD's ?

Stretch,

I use a catalogue set to indicate which DVD my images have been backed up to.  Some shoots will go onto 2 or more DVDs and some DVDs will include 2 or more shoots.  This is about the only time I use Bridge to add meta-data as I have created templates with the DVD names in them.  The only reason I can see for the cataloguing of images on DVDs is to include that catalogue on the DVD.  By its nature it then becomes a read-only catalogue.  The only 'danger' in this is that future versions if xMedia may not handle old catalogues - very unlikely, but if a change is made to allow for large catalogues then the catalogue format must change.

With regards to your question about emailing off-line images in the original post;  xMedia has a few gaps where functionality won't work if images are off-line.  While I've not used the emailing functionality I've been stuck a few times when the XML export fails if any images in the catalogue are off-line.  This is even when you are only dealing with on-line images or don't require any thumbnail activity.  The export to text data file does work, which is annoying as it is exporting pretty much the same data, albeit in different formats.  I guess that whoever wrote the emailing functionality also wrote the XML export section of code and 'forget' this.

Ian
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 07:36:03 AM »

Stretch,
What's the size of your total archive, would you guess?
Peter
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Stretch Tuemmler
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 10:49:42 AM »

Our commercial catalog which is currently in LR has about 12,000 images which takes up just under 3 G.  We shoot with a 22 megapixel back.  So between the raws, layered PSD's, flattened tif's, cmyk & web images it's quite a bit of data to keep on drives.  We just catalog the flattened tif which is typically 64 Mg. Some of the layered files range from .5-2+ Gigs each.  These are very handy to have if we need to revisit the files.  Doesn't happen all the time but it does happen.

Our personal catalog (LR) has about 20,000 but mostly just in Raw.  These we heep on an external firewire G-Raid Drive which gets backed up to a Drobo.  The personal files work fine in LR.  The commercial work is the issue.

Thanks for your comments, Stretch
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 07:45:07 AM »

Stretch,
I was curious as to the total size in GB of your image data.
Peter
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Stretch Tuemmler
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 07:10:28 PM »

Roughly 9 Terrabites.  30 boxes that average 100 disks per.  Guessing an average of 3 G per since some are CD's.  The problem I have is that hard drives fail.  WE have 4 Lacie D2 about 4 years old, have replaced 2 of the drives.  We have 2 G-Tech2 (1 T) that we have had for about 9 months but 1 drive is making lots of noise at start up.  We have 2 Drobo's all 4 bays loaded with either 500,750 or 1000G drives.  And Lastly we have an Infrant/ Netgear Raid (5) with 4 750 G drives.  We have only had to replace 1 drive on the Netgear which was under warranty.  The Drobo drives have been fine so far but the unit is a noisy thing.  For our Drobo's and Raid we have been buying server grade (ES) Seagate drives. 

We keep our personal photo files on the 2- G-Tech drives which get backed up to a Drobo.
We use our second Drobo for Portfolio images we want to have easy access to and that gets backed up to our Raid.
We have 2 imaging computers which have 1 drive for the system that gets cloned using Carbon Copy Cloaner so it is bootable if we have a problem.
Both stations also have a second drive which is our work drive, these get backed up manually to the Raid.  However I'm thinking of switching that to incremental back up with Carbon Copy Cloaner.
My MacBookPro gets cloaned with CCC almost nightly.

Who would have known when we went digital 10 years ago that this part would be so costly and a pain in the neck.  We try to keep it simple but it's not.  We try to get our jobs off our systems as quickly as possible so we don't jam up and run out of space.  We keep 2 copies of DVD's.  One at the studio, the other at home.

Always open to ideas.  I have your book in my bag to look at again,

Thanks for your input,

Stretch

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peterkrogh
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 06:36:31 AM »

Stretch,
Okay, I'm getting the picture.  It's looks like you are pretty well-covered.  Im not quite to 9 TB - probably more like 6 TB of primary data. 

The only thing I see here that could probably be smoother would be to get rid of the LaCies, and to get bigger drives. 1 TB are cheap, and I hear we should see 2 TB soon (The 1.5 TB seagates can be problematic).  I think if you had large, unified primary storage, it would make things easier.  3 Drobos with (4) 1 TB drives each gets you to about 9 TB of storage. Add another one if you have more than this would hold.  Create a unified HD backup system, and take those offsite.  I'd keep the optical disk as part of the plan, but I'd consider Blu-Ray if you're producing this much.

Depending on ho secure and fireproof your studio is, you might also want to institute an off-site swapper drive for the working files.

Yes, it's a lot of work, but how expensive would this be in the film world?  You'd need to have an entire room to hold this many film images. And the cost to purchase the film and processing would be orders of magnitude higher.

Peter
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Stretch Tuemmler
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 01:47:40 PM »

Thanks Peter, all good thoughts.  Basically it's a constant downstreaming as Media gets cheaper.  We use the Lacie drives to make system boots since we don't need alot of space.  But they will probably start to fail before too long and we will replace them.  We just had to buy a new drive for our Drobo and the 1T drive was less than what a 500G was a year or so ago.  We typically stay 1 level down from the high end to help with cost.  Not to mention that I heard about issue's with the 1.5 Seagate drive.

I haven't had time to look into Blu-Ray too much.  Do you have a forecast on how long the media should last?  And who is making the best media.  We buy Tiayo Yuden because it's supposed to be among the best and we have very few problems.  Some disks are about 8 years old or so.  Blue Ray is still very pricy but it would save some serious time. 

Regarding our work files, which is a concern... Most jobs do get copied to a Lacie Rugged for working on at home but not always.  I do have a good insurance policy if disaster strikes, hopefully we will never have to go there.

Film... About a year ago I scanned all the film we care about and tossed 15 years of film shooting.  We did keep the selects that we scanned from incase we need to rescan.  We used to spend a fortune in film & polaroid.  Now we spend about 1/2 as much in technology.  It's been a fun ride.  Thanks again!

Stretch

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