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Author Topic: Image Location noted in Catalog?  (Read 3927 times)
Big-T
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« on: December 16, 2008, 11:29:30 AM »

Here is a question I see only partially answered from many, many posts I have read re/ backup. Scenario: Images are backed-up to DVD media on an ongoing basis - bucket method or whatever floats your boat. When you perform a search in your image catalog program (iView, Lightroom, etc.) for files with certain meta criteria, how is it that the catalog program is able to tell you the location of the file(s) that meet your criteria?

That is, let's say your search reply says you have matches that are on 3 different locations/DVDs - how did the catalog program obtain those locations?

**Are image files imported into the catalog application FROM BACKUP DVDs so it knows which DVD has what image files with meta data? If ALL files reside on a hard disk, I can see how the catalog programs knows locations as you import the images from your HD into the catalog app, but what about external media spanning several locations? Do you only import images into the catalog app from your backed-up/archived volumns (media discs) since this is the final destination of workflow?
 Huh
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 11:48:38 AM »

Big T (name?)
I strongly suggest that anything you want to keep be stored on hard drive.
Optical disk is good as part of a backup strategy, but poor as primary storage.

(Backup, by definition, is a copy of files that are stored in a primary version somewhere else.  You seem to be using the term instead of the term archive.).
Peter
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Big-T
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 12:15:17 PM »

Thanks, Peter.

I may have not clearly provided all the detail: I have a 'live' copy of several years of photos on a large primary hard drive which I backup to 2 other drives on an ongoing basis. I want to start my archive process to DVD, inclduing DNGs of my originals.  Importing - and finding - files into/within the catalog app is easy when images are found within directories of my primary 'live' hard disk volume, but I am wondering how the catalog app is able to provide file location information within the archived DVD collection (DVD_ORIG_01. . ._09)?

Are you really only running image search queries on your local "live" drives?

I am just wondering this in an event that what I have 'online' is ever 'off-line' Wink

Thanks,

Thomas
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 03:13:40 PM »

Thomas,
I'd suggest that anything you ever want to see again is kept on hard drive. Try doing the math for burning images and erasing - Wiping a $100 drive (1 TB) would mean burning 250 DVDs. In what way does it make sense to do this - no money saved, lots of time spent, no additional security, need lots of extra physical storage space, much slower to retrieve the files...

You could do it with 50 Blu-ray disks, but at the lowest price I've seen, this would be $250 in media cost, with many of the same drawbacks as DVD.
Peter
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Big-T
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 03:19:08 PM »

Peter,

are you saying no more DVD 'original' or 'derivative' "buckets" of our collection (that is also online on hard drive(s)? But, rather, just clone our hard drive directories across multiple drives? Forgive me if I am having another old-timers moment.

-Thomas
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BobSmith
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2008, 04:12:05 AM »

I backup to DVD as a sort of last resort off site stored backup.  The files on my hard drive are stored in DVD sized "buckets" as Peter describes in the book.  If the catalog knows that a file is in RAW-089 folder on the hard drive then its going to be on a DVD labeled RAW-089 as well.  The individual DVDs don't need to be cataloged because the DVDs themselves mirror the directory structure of the hard drive.  Am I understanding what you're asking correctly?

Bob Smith
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2008, 07:50:17 AM »

THomas,
Bob has it right.  Optical media is for disaster-recovery backup - not primary storage. 
So I suggest keeping with bucket-sized folders on the primary drive, backed up to a second drive in the same directory structure, backed up to a set of optical disks (now blu-ray for me) in the same sequential structure.

Make sense?
Peter
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Big-T
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2008, 07:56:07 AM »

Hi Bob,

thanks for helping me try to understand this point. Interesting, OK, I may have misssed a very salient point in all this. Given your reply above, then, let me ask you - WHEN is it that your catalog becomes aware of your image file(s) location - inculduing originals and any derviatives of an original, at what part of the workflow? Also, could you share with me an example file directory structure that you are using?

Thanks!

-Thomas
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Big-T
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2008, 08:11:35 AM »

Ah, ok. Sorry, Peter, I missed your reply to Bob's post when I replied to Bob above. OK, so as you are laying out your image file directory and files are being placed into the appropriate directories ('Originals', 'Derivatives', 'DNG', etc), your file import(s) and synchs into the catalog application keeps their locations current and correct. . . .

Is this more or less right?

-Thomas
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BobSmith
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2008, 08:32:26 AM »

What you're asking about is part of the process that caused me the most grief as I started to implement many of the ideas that The DAM Book outlines.  You're not alone.  I think I ended up taking a little different approach than Peter's.  I have one drive "Working" where everything goes initially.  That drive is part of the catalog along with the RAW, DRV etc drives.  I simply update that drive in Expression Media (or a particular folder on that drive) when I know I've added or worked on something.  Items on the Working drive are stored in folders labeled by date and description.  Within that folder are folders for RAW and various work in progress folders (also labeled by date and description).  Once a job or project is mostly complete I move the contents from the working drive to "buckets" on an archive drive.  The subfolders for jobs can usually be moved intact to a particular RAW or DRV bucket.  If I move them using Expression Media then the location is always accounted for.  Expression Media also makes it easy to track the size of what's being moved and the size of destination buckets.  My working drive is kept in sync (with Chronosync) to several other drives for backup while the work lives there.  I don't burn anything to DVD until it's archived into buckets.  It's not unusual for a particular job or project to live on my working drive for months before I finally move it into an archive bucket.

Bob Smith
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Big-T
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2008, 09:10:57 AM »

Most excellent, Bob, thank you. Very interesting, and I think also for me, functional.

Like you, it can be months before I work on originals and seeing your approach this would fit into that design.  I think I will try a similar hybrid layout and flow and post back if I have questions. I see that you have distinct 'archive' hard drives in addition to your live working directory drive.

Questions:
 - Do you also have an additional  backup working directory drive?
 - Are you using your catalog app (Expressions) for the original file ingesting/importing from memory cards so it can tag and rename?


-Thomas
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BobSmith
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2008, 10:10:50 AM »

I have at least three copies of my working directory at any time.  One resides on a laptop that goes with me just about everywhere.  The other two are on separate workstations in my studio.  Since Chronosync is used for syncing the drives, it keeps files that might accidently be deleted or overwritten for a bit more protection against my stupidity.

Probably at least half of my photographs are shot using a tethered camera in the studio.  So those go directly into the working drive as they are shot.  The tethering software (EOS Utility) renames them at the same time as well.  I view the shoot in Bridge and batch enter initial metadata there.  I've tried several more automated ways for ingesting images for those occasions when I'm not tethering.  I've continued to just do it manually.  Copy the files off the card into the location that I want them, then rename and enter metadata in Bridge.  It seems like each project has just enough unique requirements to throw a wrench into just about any automated system that i've tried.  It's not much trouble to do it manually and get exactly what I need... quickly... every time.  Chronosync backs up my working drive several times a day so backups are made automatically shortly after shooting/ingesting.  If ingesting from cards I typically have enough cards... and use them so rarely... that I can go weeks before needing to erase them.  That provides still more backups.

Bob Smith
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2008, 11:40:01 AM »

Bob,
I do very much as you do, with the Working drive, backed up to at least two other places (I have a pair of swapper drives that rotate offsite, so it's really 4 places).  Buckets are for files as they get put away - his might be fast, or it might take months.

I outline this in much more detail in the new version of the book.

Peter
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Big-T
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2008, 01:53:05 PM »

Thanks, gentlemen, ver much!

Peter - NEW version of your book? What? What? How did I miss it!? Where do I order?
 Smiley

-Thomas
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2008, 05:52:41 PM »

THomas,
Still writing (right at this hour, as a matter of fact). We will announce exact pubdate soon, but it looks like March/April.
Peter
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