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Author Topic: Camera Scan Hardware  (Read 12826 times)
peterkrogh
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« on: December 11, 2007, 12:23:07 PM »

I recieved the prototype hardware from Really Right Stuff today, and it's perfect. I'll be testing with various bodies and lenses over the next two weeks. 

In talking with RRS, it looks like this device might be in the $500 or so range (it depends on where we can get negative stages from and how much modification they need).

If you'd like to get on a waiting list, send me private email.  I'll post something here once RRS opens up a way to get in line over there.

More information soon.

Peter
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 11:01:07 PM »

Here's a link to a web gallery of the prototype. 

http://www.peterkrogh.com/rrsproto/

It's really nice. 

Basically, it's an old slide copying stage attached to some of the existing RRS rail hardware. 

There is a bellows that acts as a sunshade in some of the pictures, and it connects to a stack of filter rings (without glass) that extend the lens so the bellows shade can connect. (Not pictured in the photo below, but if you go through the web gallery linked above, you'll see it about halfway through the picture sequence.)

Peter
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 11:04:42 PM by peterkrogh » Logged
jfiora
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2007, 05:48:13 AM »

Peter, Is the idea that these will be offered in different versions eventually? Slides as well as negs? 120mm, even 4x5? Thanks, Jim Fiora
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2007, 07:10:06 AM »

Jim,
A couple of things.
First, this unit will handle both slides and negs.  (The film stage is from a Nikon bellows/copy unit, the PS-5). If you look at the linked web gallery, you'll some photos of the unit without the negative inserted, and can probably see how a slide would go in.

At the moment, RRS wants to see that there is enough interest in the unit to make it generally available.  This is complicated by the fact that there are an unknown quantity of film stages available, and each different model requires some custom machining to be attached to the rail.

As to medium and large format, there are a couple of considerations.

• First, there are many fewer film stages in circulation (it seems that Mamiya and Pentax each had one in 6x7 and that Hasselblad had one in 6x6, but I can't find any for sale).

• If the technique, and the device becomes popular for 35mm, then it would certainly be possible to have something custom designed, but that's expensive.

• It's also possible that there is some bit of enlarging hardware that could be adapted to the task (a Besseller Negatrans, for instance).

• Or you could do what I've been doing, and use an Illumitran Slide Duplicating Unit for Medium and Large format (I'll be modifying mine soon to do Widelux). It's slower and less comfortable than working with a horizontal line of sight, but works fine.

• I would also say that while Digital SLRs capture a high percentage of the information that is in a 35mm original, the parity drops off for medium and large format.  I'd like to do some testing with the new Canon to see how it stacks up against a traditional film scanner.  I think Mike Stewart will be attacking that task shortly, even adding HDR workflow to the mix.  Preliminary results indicate very good tonal and color reproduction using this technique.

Ultimately, I think the first tier of usage here is best suited to people with B&W 35mm archives, for these reasons:

1. The quality of B&W 35mm camera scans has close parity to even high-end film scanners.
2. This can be achieved even with cameras that are not current top-tier DSLRs
3. 35mm B&W needs this approach (scan *everything*) more, in many cases, due to the nature of how people shot it, and due to the difficulty of pulling single frames for scanning.
4. It's an easier correction, given the state of the tools.

I expect this to be pretty closely followed by 35mm color neg and 35mm slide.  There's a bit of engineering time needed to customize RapidFixer for this work. That will probably only happen once I'm done with my B&W (which I'm more than halfway through scanning - 25,000 scanned - maybe 10,000 to go).  Like all of our software development, it's all about the tools I want for my own personal work, which gets filtered out to you guys once we can make them ready.
;-)

Well, that's pretty long-winded, but hopefully it gives you a good picture of the landscape here.
Peter
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markpirozzi
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 06:49:42 PM »

Peter,

If I bought one of these, what would I need to supply besides the camera and lens:

QR plate?

for BW - nothing?

for Color Neg - Specific light source?

35mm Slides - Slide holder?

I am probably most interested in slides scans - have lots of K25 which I assume is more difficult than say Provia (vintage of Provia emulsion 6-10 years ago).

Mark
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markpirozzi
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2007, 07:01:30 PM »

I meant ask if anything else is needed that I didn't mention.

Mark
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2007, 08:02:12 PM »

In order to get this up and running, you need:

A good digital camera
A Close-up lens
A tripod head that can hold the rig
RapidFixer (for B&W negs)
Some kind of even light source (I've been using a strobe and softbox, but it could be pretty much anything that is even)

That's about it.
Peter
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2007, 10:14:00 PM »

Price update.
This is unofficial, but I think it's pretty close to final.

Looks like the RRS rig is pricing out at $435, give or take.
RRS will convert your Nikon PS-5 to fit on the rig for $100, probably  (you supply the Nikon PS-5). 
That probably puts the total cost at $600, by the time everything's done.

A Nikon PS-4 could also work, but needs a few additional modifications to be done.
Other copy attachments could work.  We have not tested any.

It looks like RRS could take some kind of orders
Peter
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markpirozzi
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2007, 06:33:36 AM »

Peter,

I misunderstood what all is included, sorry.

The RSS rig does not include anything for holding the slides, negs, right?

It looks like I would need to buy a PS-5, which appears not to be available from Nikon any more.

The PS-5 is called a slide copy attachment, does it handle film without modification?

The short bellows, that's never pictured with a PS-5 in my internet search, was that part of a larger bellows unit you had or did that come with a new PS-5?

The price ~$435 + $100 =  ~$535   Is $535 bumped up to $600 to include $65 to buy a used PS-5 or is there some other item?

What source do you trust (by mail/internet) to buy a used PS-5?

Mark




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peterkrogh
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2007, 08:13:19 AM »

Mark,
You are correct that RRS does not make anything to hold slides, they have I have bought several PS-5 units from KEH.  They currently have a couple PS-4 units, which should work fine.

Both Nikon units handle slides and film strips without further modification.


The bellows is built-in to the unit.

Peter
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markpirozzi
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 09:38:22 AM »

Peter,

You said:
A Nikon PS-4 could also work, but needs a few additional modifications to be done.

Question:
Does RSS do this at little extra cost? Not sure what is involved.


You said:
It looks like RRS could take some kind of orders

Question:
I interpret that as it looks promising, but stay tuned for an announcement.  I emailed you, but I assume I would be actually be ordering from RRS once their site indicates the availability.


Another question:
Your photos of the prototype: Looks like a QR Plate is required - don't have dedicated one for my current camera - does a universal plate come with the rig? 

Mark
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2007, 10:30:30 AM »

Yes, Mark, a Quick Release plate is required, and, no, one does not come with the setup.  Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm not sure if they would also do a PS-4 for the same price.  May be best to ask them once they turn this into an actual product - hopefully early next week.

Peter
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jcbenner
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2009, 11:06:16 PM »

Hello, a few hardware questions.

Can you elaborate on the modifications required to use the PS-5? What exactly are the modifications (e.g. drilling/tapping etc.)?

Also, if using the Canon 100mm 2.8L, would the 18 inch MPR be the appropriate rail? Thanks!
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2009, 09:45:50 AM »

John,
the mods are not hard to do.

1. Remove the chrome bar - There is s set screw, and then the cap screw needs to be removed (can be done with vise grips, usually).  Then tap out the bar.  Every now and then, you find one of these where the bar really does not want to come out.
2. Cut off the flange that the chrome bar goes into.  This can be done easily with a Dremmel tool. You might be able to do it with a hacksaw.
3. File out the corners of the film stage. Not absolutely necessary (particularly if you are shooting slides).  I like the border to have a particular personality.  The original PS1 is the one I use - it's tighter, so it needs more filing, but it also gives the most "emlarger-like" look.  The downloadable samples on this site were done with this type (BTW, these don't have the flange to remove, so they are actually easier to configure.)

Peter
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jcbenner
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2009, 02:21:56 PM »

Thanks for the reply Peter.

Now that I have a Nikon PS-5 in-hand, I can see the mods are indeed trivial.
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