keywording derivitive files

[Sossity Corby]

How do I keyword a derivatives of my original jpegs? when I save a derivative of one of my originals, do I just give it the same keywords as my original? do I have to go & look up my originals to get the keywords so I can give the derivitives the same keywords?

Sossity

[peterkrogh]

Sossity,
With proper workflow, your derivatives should be created with existing keywords already present.
Peter

[Sossity Corby]

do the keywords follow the original when I bring it into photo shop elements 6.0? ( this is what I am currently using) do they stick to derivitives that I save from the original? how do I get keywords to stick?

Sossity

[peterkrogh]

If you embed the keywords upon creation of the derivative.
You should experiment, and see if you can make that happen.
Peter

[aramb]

Peter:

Just to clarify (for the newbie here)... you keyword the originals in iView, push the keywords into the file and then create derivatives? I guess what I am not understanding is if the keywords are added in iView, then they are part of the catalog, not the image. So when you create derivatives, the keywords are not there (unless you are continually syncing the catalog to push the keywords into the original files).

Aram Basmadjian
Sleepless in Frankfurt

[billseymour]

Aramb-

My own workflow when adding images to iView catalog:
- import the images
- add keywords, and any other metadata (such as copyright, author, etc)
- rate (stars, labels)
- rename (batch renaming in iView)
- push the new file name into each file's Title category (using a script)

and
- Sync Annotate all of this, so all of the above effort is pushed into each image file.
- reorder the catalog by File_name
- save the catalog

I do this each time I import new images into my catalogs.

Now when I work on one of these original images, in Photoshop for example, all of the metadata is carried with the original image. If I open one of my image files, and then Save_as a PSD file (or TIF), since the original file had all the metadata, the Photoshop PSD file will also have all the metadata, too.

When I finish my project and have a Photoshop master file, I will:
- add any additional metadata (and especially my comments on the project, entered in the File_info menu item in Photoshop)
- import the Master Photoshop file into iView (placing it in the Derivatives bucket)

- rename the Master file: I have started doing the following:

In Photoshop, I use a folder for each project, numbered Ps0001, Ps0002, etc.

So: my Master file name will look like this:

original:  wcs_080317_0001_Org.(jpg, etc)
Master:   wcs_080317_0001_Ps0004_Master.PSD (or TIF)

This way, I have the derivative positioned in iView beside the original; and the Ps0004 designation gets me back to the Photoshop folder where I did all my work.

In all cases, the metadata originally in iView flows with the file: original has metadata sync_annotated into it; I open this file in Photoshop, then Save_as a PSD file, and the metadata is now with the PSD file.

Hope this is of help.
Bill S.

[peterkrogh]

Aram,
Bill outlines a solid workflow.

Since most of my essential metadata is added in Bridge, I generally don't have to sync to get it to show in the derivative.  But for information crated in iView, yes, you sync first. Or, alternately, if you have iView create a proofing derivative (web gallery, proof print, email image) the new metadata gets included in the new derivative.

Peter

[aramb]

Thanks Bill and Peter. This really clears it up for me now.

My big mistake is that I have been going in after the images are already imported and adding keywords using PhotoMechanic (when I have time). I like using PM because it is much easier to import keywords when using a controlled vocabulary - A large controlled vocabulary is cumbesome on Bridge and iView. However, I think that I do not need the controlled vocabulary after all... I am just complicating the process way too much. I am going to try adopting a simpler keyword approach (thanks, Peter) that uses a much smaller number of keywords (without all the dozens of parent and sibling hierarchies) and do it directly in Bridge. That will eliminate the need for PM altogether and simplify my workflow.

Aram Basmadjian
Sleepless in Frankfurt