updates in raw images to appear in dng?

[steveZ]

I have never saved as DNG before, so my question is, can I apply changes in camera raw (4.1 Mac osx) to show up in the DNG?  In otherwords, go thru raw to make things look a little better; then how to get that appearance to show up as the view state of the DNG?  Do I just make raw changes, and then jump over to the dng converter?  Seems like those changes might be lost if they are hanging around as side car files.  What about doing that with NEF files?  As you may know, NEF files automatically adjust for CA very well, so I would like my DNG's to hold that correction.

[johnbeardy]

SteveZ (as moderator, please sign off your posts)

Yes they do hold those changes and they are reflected in the DNG, both in the xmp metadata and in the preview. That's one of the advantages of the format and workflow. If it's not happening, review the options for rebuilding the DGN previews.

John

[andyj]

John,

Perhaps I interpret Steve's question slightly differently but....

Steve,

Once you have a first-time DNG then subsequent changes to the "RAW" should actually be performed on the DNG file.  I.e. the DNG file becomes your new RAW.  This means when you go back into the RAW editor with the DNG file it picks up previous changes already made on that file.  This is the point of DNG: it's (supposedly) a global RAW format (as opposed to your NEF format.)

I think if you did what you say, i.e. edit the NEF file to create a DNG, re-edit the NEF file to make other changes then yes, you would lose your first set of changes because they are not stored in the original file.

Hope I haven't confused the issue!

Andrew

[steveZ]

"Yes they do hold those changes and they are reflected in the DNG, both in the xmp metadata and in the preview"

So we make initial changes in the camera raw, and then "done".  I think there is an option to embed the changes rather than side car?  Is that better for the raw converter?  Then go to converter and convert?

" think if you did what you say, i.e. edit the NEF file to create a DNG,"

I dont think you can get NEF proprietary features into DNG, most notably that CA fix, unless you save out to a tiff.  Isn't this the subject of an entire set of criticisms about proprietary formatting?

[Photo_op]

When converting RAWs to DNG select the options to embed the RAW (disk space is cheap) and use full size preview. Any changes by ACR (Lightroom too) can be "saved" to the DNG without the baggage of sidecars (helps in backup and archiving). ACR and Lightroom can update the preview with any changes depending upon you particular workflow. Some other RAW converters, more or LESS, can work in the "same" fashion.  AND, depending upon your backup strategy, if "fubar" occurs, you still have your RAW NEF saved in a DNG, somewhere. See also thread-

http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php?topic=899.0


--Dave

[johnbeardy]

Dave, I think Steve wanted to "embed the changes", not the raw file itself.

On that subject, embedding the raw file in the DNG is a trade off and I feel it's best avoided. While it might be handy to manage both files as one, it's pretty painful if you *ever* want to open lots of raw files in another converter that doesn't read DNG.

John

[Photo_op]

Dave, I think Steve wanted to "embed the changes", not the raw file itself.

On that subject, embedding the raw file in the DNG is a trade off and I feel it's best avoided. While it might be handy to manage both files as one, it's pretty painful if you *ever* want to open lots of raw files in another converter that doesn't read DNG.

John

John-maybe I didn't understand his question OR I wasn't clear in my explanation.   

1. Embedding the RAW into the DNG is a preference. I'm assuming Adobe will be backward compatible with DNG if I ever need to extract the RAW from a DNG during my photo lift time. Currently I use all Adobe products so I agree with your contention regarding "other" converters, but it has not been an issue for me.

2. As to "embedding the changes", using ACR or Lightroom one can "save" any changes to the DNG and update the Preview. No?

--Dave