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Problems with multiple namespaces - old data keeps returning
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Author Topic: Problems with multiple namespaces - old data keeps returning  (Read 4113 times)
Michael Garner
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« on: September 18, 2007, 07:18:54 PM »

I have been struggling with Expression Media SP1 all day to try and determine why tags that I remove in Bridge keep returning.

I finally figured out what is happening.

Expression Media is reading and writing both the Iview and the Expression Media namespaces. Then, on import (or resync), it reads the contents of "People" and "Catalog Sets" from both namespaces (It reads the Status and Event values only from the Expression Media namespace.)

If you use another tool and only edit one, the other remains intact. So, if you resync the metadata, the old elements are still there.

For example:
1) In Expression Media I add two entries to "People"
   Person1
   Person2
2) Open the file in Adobe Bridge and use the File Info|Iview tab
( I am using a modified version which uses the Expression Media namespace)
   Remove Person 1
3) Resync the metadata back to Expression Media. "People" still shows
   Person1
   Person2

Here is a summary of what Expression Media is doing:
When reading metadata
Iview Namespace
   Event             Never Read
   Status             Never Read
   People             Always Read
   Catalog Sets   Always Read

Expression Media Namespace
   Event             Always Read
   Status             Always Read
   People             Always Read
   Catalog Sets   Always Read

When writing metadata
Iview Namespace
   Event             Always write
   Status             Always write
   People             Always write
   Catalog Sets   Always write

Expression Media Namespace
   Event             Always write
   Status             Always write
   People             Always write
   Catalog Sets   Always write


This problem will happen with any tool that modifies only one of the namespaces. The old data will still be in the other namespace and will return when you resync the metadata.

It may be important to support the iview namespace for sometime. I think that what is needed is a configuration option to control whether the iview namespace is recognized when reading/writing metadata.

I hope that this is helpful. iIf anyone knows a workaround, let me know.

Michael
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 04:19:09 AM »

Michael,
Thanks for the thorough testing.  This is the kind of problem that is going to be increasingly unavoidable as collections are touched by multiple applications.  We should expect to see a fair amount of legacy XMP data hanging around.

In some ways, the best approach is going to be to stay monogamous, as far as collection management is concerned.  That way, you only really need to worry about conflicts when it's time to migrate. 

Of course, the software companies should offer tools to clean up their own messes, but this is not at the top of their list of things to spend engineering resources on.

What we need here is an all-purpose metadata processor that can identify, read, translate, duplicate and remove metadata from files as the user desires. (Are you reading, John?)  Right now, unless you go into the XMP code itself, it's kind of like looking through small holes in a fence - you may see parts of what's there, and may even be able to reach some of it, but you can't get the whole picture.

Peter
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johnbeardy
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 06:57:09 AM »

Interesting problem - at first xM was failing to read iView embedded metadata. Now reading both means confusion. I guess you need some way in Bridge to strip the data from a specific namespace, or at least to rename that namespace so apps no longer read it.

I've always been irritated at iView/xM's inability to point fields to specific namespace - that's an area where Portfolio does things properly. Even if it can't write back to the file.

John
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Michael Garner
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 08:37:23 AM »

In Bridge, the manual solution is to have custom info panels for both the Iview namespace and the Expression media namespace. Perform all of your modifications in one space (If you are using Event or Status tags then you have to use the Expression media space. EM won't read those from the Iview space).

Then, as a final step before sending back to Expression media, select all items and clear out the data in the other namespace. That way, EM will only see content from a single namespace. It's a little clumsy but it works.

In my case, it's not a huge problem during my early workflow. I am using IngesterPro to create my initial metadata (with only the Expression Media namespace). I use Bridge with only the ExpressionMedia custom panel and not the Iview custom panel so Bridge doesn't add the iview data. Lightroom doesn't add either. So, by the time the files reach EM, there is still no Iview data.

But, from that point on I have to be careful. It really means that I need to stick with EM for any metadata changes to Event, Status, Catalog Sets and People. As long as I only maintain those in EM I'll be OK.

I went through this excercise because I am in the process of testing and documenting metadata handling through my entire workflow, item by item and ran across this anomaly.

I don't like mysteries (computer, that is)

Michael
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2007, 12:56:17 PM »

Michael,
I ran this one by Phil Hayward at Microsoft (he was on the iView team before he moved to Redmond).
He indicated that this was the way things are going to be - not much immediate prospect of anyone offering a comprehensive solution.
Peter
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Michael Garner
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2007, 12:26:31 PM »

Peter,

Thanks for checking. As I said, as long as Expression Media is the last stage for metadata changes it's not a problem. If I do need to modify metadata ourside EM, I can work around it as long as I remember the rules.

Thanks again,
Michael
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