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Expanded Quick Fields on the Metadata Panel
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Author Topic: Expanded Quick Fields on the Metadata Panel  (Read 6795 times)
Marc Rochkind
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« on: May 21, 2007, 05:09:13 PM »

At Dan's suggestion, I've expanded the number of Quick Fields to 8, made the first 3 of them multiline and wrapping, and kept the last 5 single-line (but scrollable). Note that the width of all of them widens as the window is widened. (The Windows Metadata Panel doesn't resize in Version 2.2, but it will in Version 2.3.)

The drop-downs for the last 10 items in each Quick Field are gone. I didn't think they were useful enough to keep, and implementing them would have been a little complicated.

As usual, you decide the labels and the use of all 8 fields. You're not at all bound by the way I've decided to use the 8 in this example. Remember that any data that's fairly constant from ingestion-to-ingestion can go in the Metadata Preset instead.

The picture shows just the lower part of the Metadata Panel. The upper part still has the outline view of Catalog Sets and keywords.

This new panel will be in Beta 6 for the Mac, which I'll have ready in a few days.

--Marc

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danaltick
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 05:16:12 AM »

Marc,

Sweet!

One thing I wanted to let you know.  Whenever I use the keywords fiield in the upper part of the panel; regardless of whether I use commas or semicolons, iView does not separate those keywords, but instead shows them in the Info panel as a single string of keywords; albiet separated by commas or semicolons.  Do you know why iView won't separate them, and is that a problem with searches.  It doesn't appear to be.  I've noticed sometimes even when I manually enter or modifiy keywords, iView doesn't separate them.  Don't know why.

Dan
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 06:21:13 AM »

Dan--

In the XMP sidecar, keywords, catalog sets, and people are represented using a list notation. Separation with commas or semicolons is just a convenience in the user interface (e.g., the Bridge/Photoshop File Info panel). In IIP, up until 2.3.01B5, the only way to enter keywords or catalog sets was via the outline. Each row was a keyword or catalog set, and the IIP user interface didn't treat commas or semicolons specially.

With B5, however, IIP now replaces semicolons with the XML notation used to separate lists in the XMP file. You can actually do this in the outline if you want, as well as in text fields. Rows in the outline continue to be separated by the same XML notation.

--Marc
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danaltick
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 07:06:29 AM »

Marc,

You kind of lost me here.  What do you mean by the "outline"?  From your explanation, does this mean in my version of IIP, if I enter a list of keywords separated by commas or semicolons, they will be treated as a single keyword by iView?  Also, what is the syntax for the XML notation for a list?

Dan
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danaltick
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 07:09:33 AM »

Marc,

I have another suggestion.  (I'm just full of suggestions;-)).  I think I would recommend moving the Data Quickfields macro tab from the main dialog to another tab on the new Presets panel and couple those macros to the current preset.  Doing this prevents the macros from accidentally getting associated with the wrong presets.... make sense?

Dan
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 09:31:20 AM »

Dan--

What I meant is that in versions prior to 2.3.01B5, you could only enter keywords using the outline at the top of the Metadata Panel. With B5, you can:

1. Use a semicolon in a single row of the outline to hold multiple keywods, and/or
2. Use any Quick Field or the Keywords field of the new Metadata Preset panel to enter keywords directly, separated by semicolons, similar to what you do in the Bridge/Photoshop File Info panel. (Although I think commas are used there.)

The keywords are the union of what you check in the outline and what you put elsewhere PROVIDED the Keywords field of the Metadata Preset has the appropriate macros in it, which it does in the Standard preset.

In the XMP sidecar, the syntax for keywords is a list where each item is an <rdf:li> element. That is, in an XMP file, you can't say:

family;Janey

You have to say:

<rdf:li>family</rdf:li><rdf:li>Janey</rdf:li>

Which is the XML used in the XMP. (Got that?)

What Beta 5 does is just replace all semicolons with "</rdf:li><rdf:li>".

By the way, IIP accepts only semicolons, not commas, as separators.

As for your newest suggestion, I can't quite understand. Can you explain what you mean by "Data Quickfields macro tab?" And, which dialog is the "main dialog?" I don't know if this is an answer, but the Metadata Panel and the Metadata Presets panel are different so several Preference Sets can use the same Metadata Preset. As I think I said earlier, I envision only 1 or 2 Metadata Presets per user, but many more Preference Sets.

--Marc
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danaltick
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2007, 12:10:38 PM »

Marc,

Thanks for that explanation of XML.  I understand now.

About the Presets; what I'm saying is I think you should move the Data tab off the Preferences panel to the Presets panel and maybe call it QuickFields instead.  It contains the Quickfield macro names use by the Presets panel correct?  I think those macro names should be stored along with the presets as a part of each preset rather than with the preferences.  Hope that makes sense.  If I'm overlooking something, let me know.

Dan
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2007, 04:32:53 PM »

OK... now I understand.

I don't think the Quick Field Labels definitions (Preferences-Data) should be moved to the Metadata Presets panel, because these labels define macros that can be used anywhere (e.g., in file names), not just in metadata. If anything, the reverse should be done, so consolidate all Preferences in one place. (Although I'm not planning to do that either.)

--Marc
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danaltick
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2007, 08:14:14 AM »

Marc,

I currently have about 6 different preference presets; however, my filenaming is the same in all of them.  What is different is the subfolder numbering, backups, pre-DNG, post-DNG, etc.  I plan to have about three different Metadata presets when B5 is released, but still keep my same preference presets.  The way I understand it now, I will have to duplicate each preference preset twice to accomodate the unique Preference:Data sets for each of the different presets which will be using different macro names.  If I accidentally forget to set my Data to match the current Preset, I will end up with unexpanded macros embedded in my metadata, correct?  Any suggestions here?  If you want to also have global macros for the preferences, maybe those should be a different set separate from the Preset/Metadata ones?  This can be confusing, so I hope I'm making sense here.

Dan
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 09:29:21 AM by danaltick » Logged

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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007, 09:45:11 AM »

Dan--

I think you're right. It would be a good idea to name a collection of Quick Field labels, so they don't have to be entered for each Preference Set. However, if you create a new Preference Set, it copies all the preferences from the current one.

--Marc
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danaltick
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 01:41:00 PM »

Marc,

Maybe it would help if you could give me some examples where you would use QuickField macros on the Preferences panel where those QuickFields are not also used on the Metadata presets panel.  In otherwords, they are non-metadata QuickField macros.  I can think of a some, like "qf.filename", "qf.datetime", and "qf.numberrange", but you already have built-in macros for those.  So far, just creating multiple Preference presets with the built-in macros has worked fine for me here.  I haven't really seen a need for non-metadata Quickfield macros on the Preferences panel.... yet.

Dan
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 08:18:29 PM by danaltick » Logged

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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 09:17:48 PM »

Dan--

Actually, before I answer, I originally envisioned the labels to be fixed per photographer, not something that would vary by Preference Set. In fact, they might have even been constant across Preference Sets, although I didn't do it that way.

So, it's admittedly somewhat awkward and, as you point out, error-prone, if they really change from Preference Set to Preference Set. This is probably something I need to look into.

Now, to answer your question: You might have a Quick Field named, say, "Session" to keep groups of photos separate, and then incorporate that into a folder name. It might not be something you need in the metadata.

That is, Quick Fields are just open-ended ways to get some data into the IIP macro processor.

--Marc
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danaltick
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2007, 04:59:41 AM »

Marc,

Makes sense.  The only real issue I see is there is currently no automated way to correlate the QuickFields with the new Metadata Presets.  The QuickFields do automatically get correlated with the Preferences presets because they are stored along with the preferences.  I personally do not use any QuickFields in my Preferences (to-date).  They are all used with my metadata; therefore, for me it would be much more convenient if they were correlated with the Metadata Presets instead of the Preferences presets.  I can't speak for everybody else though.  What this means for me is, if I switch metadata presets and forget to go over to the Preferences panel and also switch my Preferences:Data to correlate with the new Metadata Preset, I will end up with a bunch of unexpanded macros embedded in my metadata the next time I ingest; and my new QuickField entries will not make it into the metadata.  I will either have to manually fix the metadata in all my images or re-ingest.  It wuold be nice if there was an easy solution to this.  I will leave it for you to decide.

Dan
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 05:08:10 AM by danaltick » Logged

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