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Author Topic: DAM - the Lightroom way  (Read 20785 times)
DannyG
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« on: February 20, 2007, 12:05:33 PM »

I have taken a stab at creating a flow chart for a Lightroom based DAM system. I'm not sure if I can add files to posts on this forum so I uploaded the diagrams to:
<removed>

I included both a PDF version and the original Illustrator version in case someone wanted to modify it.

I consider this a preliminary rough draft as I didn't want to go too far down the road without getting some feedback. Also, I am just starting a digital library so my needs are relatively simple and this probably won't work for more extensive libraries.

Notes:
1. You will see that I have stayed away from DNG's - at least until LR includes 100% previews.
2. I'm keeping the "Folders" section of LR as pure as possible as this is were the file backups will come from.
3. The LR database would also have to be backed up. I understand that when using the LR Backup, it only backs up the database and not the image files.
4. All the cataloging happens in the Collections section - I'm not sure if this is the best way but I'm putting it out there as a start.

I look forward to your feedback. Hopefully we call all put our heads together and come up with a workable Lightroom only solution.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 01:04:29 PM by DannyG » Logged
Butch_M
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 01:57:47 PM »

Hi Danny G

This is very similar to what has been going on in my head as to using LR for the Lion's share of the bulk processing tasks and iVew for the master catalog. Once an order has been delivered, create DNG with the DNG converter move to JBOD archive, catalog in iView, add private metadata, then delete the job (for organizational purposes) from LR until it grows into a better DAM workhorse. I like iView and the team that created it .... I, however, am not optimistic to it's future at MS. I wish them the best, but I have a feeling if push comes to shove, Mac users like myself may get left behind by licensing issues if nothing else. I'm not tryimg to cause a great debate ... just looking to the future and expolring as many options as I can. I can even envision having a catalog on both systems at some point in the future if possible.

Butch
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Niall Horley
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 03:55:31 AM »

Hi,

I am i the same position as you, trying to adapt Peters work flow to use Lightroom. If I understand your directory I am starting to follow a similar process.
I am assuming in your diagram that the lightroom folders and collections are built over your Derivatives and Master files on the hard drive. So are  these in effect what Peter would term his working directories? I thought the Master files were just another flavour of derivative files.

I am also assuming that you are not archiving photos, apart from with the initial import. I have a similar situation, for my personnel work I want to have access to it all the time, the children often look through the photos when they feel like it which is nice. Also when people come round and want to look at my holiday photos they are there. I also have studio work which I can archive once the clients have the photos. So over time my working directories will get quite large, this may become a problem, but I am not sure how to get round this.

Niall
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Niall Horley
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Dierk
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 04:47:42 AM »

Dang Apple!

Their iDisk domain does not work with Opera ...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 04:50:08 AM by Dierk » Logged

Dierk

IDimager on Windows XP/SP2; 3.2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, loads of storage space.
Other: Nikon D2x, Nikon D200, Capture NX 2, Adobe Creative Suite 3
Niall Horley
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 05:03:21 AM »

Dang Apple!

Their iDisk domain does not work with Opera ...

Works in IE there is a surprise, I suppose even m$ could not get away with that.

BTW what is the ai file?

Niall
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Niall Horley
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DannyG
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 07:01:49 AM »

The .ai file is an Adobe Illustrator file of the same diagram. I posted it so if someone wanted to take it and modify it they could.

This still has a long way  to go. Niall, my thought was that once the raw files were edited with basic adjustments and basic metadata added, they become the master files. All other changes are handled in LR via the collections, except for those that are permanent derivatives.

I have not considered archiving at this point and not sure how to go about it.

I also don't know the best way to backup the LR library of photos except by manually moving them into buckets folders and keeping track of what has been backed up and what has not. It would nice to find a more automated system.

Dierk, not sure what you mean by your message but if you can't get into this file, send me an email and I will send it to you.
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Niall Horley
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 07:20:37 AM »

The .ai file is an Adobe Illustrator file of the same diagram. I posted it so if someone wanted to take it and modify it they could.

This still has a long way  to go. Niall, my thought was that once the raw files were edited with basic adjustments and basic metadata added, they become the master files. All other changes are handled in LR via the collections, except for those that are permanent derivatives.

I have not considered archiving at this point and not sure how to go about it.

I also don't know the best way to backup the LR library of photos except by manually moving them into buckets folders and keeping track of what has been backed up and what has not. It would nice to find a more automated system.


When you have done your basic adjustments do you move the files into a new directory or are they imported directly into the masters directory structure.

If they are imported directly into the masters directory structure, why do you not just create a bucket below the year directory, once it fills up to 4GB (I assume you are using DVD's) Create a new bucket. This is what I am planning on doing. The only issue I have is that if I go back & visit files in these directories the xmp will be updated and will need to be backed up, but I am not sure how to know what needs to be backed up.

You could also do the same under the derivatives directory.

I would also move the lightroom library into the LR Folders area. As this needs to be backed up as some of the data is not in the xmp files, I think version and stack data is missing.

One think lightroom is rubbish at is if you move a directory it looses where all the images are, yes I know its only a v1 product but still.

Niall
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Niall Horley
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Chris Bishop
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 07:23:03 AM »

If you keep the photos in a file structure that suits your work-flow and import the photos into LR-backing becomes the catalogue only and not all the photos.
Keep Masters and all sub-folders in a bucket size structure that makes back ups easier. Instead of "Year" (in grey) DVD-2007-001, DVD-2007-002, DVD-2007-100 etc, or month and year if needed. I am using just the "shoot" details in DVD-001 etc. I hope to find which bucket via the catalogue.
Any work being done on the Masters makes them a derivative SO SAVE WITH A DIFFERENT NAME, then the Masters can be archived. Any derivative being worked on (work in progress) is backed up as you would any document you produce, be it a Word document, spreadsheet or accounts data. Once the job is finished the photos are moved to the derivatives archive bucket. Again I use Derivs-DVD-001 then shoot. inside shoot would be the .psd files (or lightzone or photomatix or Ptassembler etc) any jpgs for printing flattened tiffs etc-keeping the psd as the "unflattened version"
If I re-access the masters to create futher derivs for a different person (my clients are famliy and friends) then they go in another shoot folder (Skiing Jan 07B) if the original DVD bucket is full, if not just add to the original shoot folder-the backup routine will pick them up. Once the DVD is full and archived it is read only-access a file to create a NEW deriv, but not alter an existing deriv.
Is this clear? (as mud!)
Chris Bishop
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Chris Bishop
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 08:05:30 AM »

Looking at your suggested workflow again, i would rank and select earlier. This means the higher the rating, the more attention paid to the image, even before Edit metadata and basic adjust-saves time.
Chris Bishop
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David Arnold
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2007, 10:29:03 AM »

Couldn't open it in Firefox, saw Niall's posting, tried IE (ver. 6), opened fine.

Who would'a thunk?!j

David
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Terence Dodge
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2007, 12:53:19 PM »

Greetings

Firefox ( ver 1.5.0.9 ) opened iDisk reference, and download file which opened with Acrobat.

Terence
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David Arnold
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2007, 02:00:15 PM »

I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.1. Maybe they went backwards. But I keep IE on my computer just for occasions like this...which don't happen once or twice a year. At any rate, I got the flowchart. Now need to put some time in studying and thinking about it, and then rereading the thread.

David
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DannyG
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2007, 03:21:46 PM »

Chris, I understand what you are saying about making the LR folders bucket size but here are my thoughts for keeping the bucket system outside LR.
1. I'd rather keep the imported shoot together in one folder. I'm thinking it would be easier to go back to one folder rather than search over a number of folders to find all the photos for one shoot. (I don't know why I would ever have to do this, but it would be nice to know it's all there in one folder.)
2. One way or the other, you still have to manually copy the files into buckets. I'd rather do it outside of LR as part of the backing up process and leave LR clean.
3. As Peter mentioned in his book, storage capacity will likely change, and continue to change. Over time you will end up with different size folders in LR, solely based on the current bucket size. Again, I think this would be easier to deal with outside of LR.
4. If LR adds a really nice backup system as part of the program in the future, the whole bucket system might go away with something better. If that happens your stuck with a LR folder system that is no longer necessary. Of course you could always go in and rearrange you LR folders, but I'd rather not have to deal with that.

I hoping Peter will jump in here at some point with his thoughts.

Dan

Ps: I didn't realize that accessing iDisk would be such a problem. If anyone can't get the file, just email me and I will send it.
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Chris Bishop
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2007, 05:54:20 PM »

Importing the photos into LR means backing up both the photos and the catalogue. (large) Keeping the photos in bucket sized folders and just getting LR to "find them" keeps the two operations separate. Photo back up and catalogue backup. This is easier and controlable. The imported shoot can be in one folder (It could span 4 DVD's) But the shoot would have to span several buckets. the catalogue would direct you to which DVD bucket you needed.
2 Yes follow Peters CD training and he does just this. Why outside LR? Inside LR at least LR knows where everything has been moved to.
Move a photo outside LR and it no longer knows where it is and can't link to it.
3 Yes my 4.?Gb buckets could be merged to blue ray, but it would be Blue Ray-001 (containing as many current buckets as fills a Blue Ray) The bucket policy didn't change. Just get LR to move the folders to the new system.
4 I've lost too much costly data over my computing years to trust backing up to anything other than a proven back-up program. I would never trust LR to back up my photos. If it improves (and Peter is suggesting so-without admitting what he knows) the current bucket system would be accepted until that date. Then the new "bucket system" would start, historically stored data would be incorporated within the program (or Peter would have a lot to say about it) (being on the "inside")
Thanks for starting this important thread.
Chris Bishop
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Jake
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2007, 06:17:52 PM »

Danny,
Thanks for the chart and starting this thread, it's what I needed for a kick start. A little off topic, but after reading through this again, I'm wondering if maybe Virtual Copies could play a role as derivitives. They would be auto backed up by LR.
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