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Author Topic: Anybody geotagging?  (Read 26142 times)
David C. Buchan
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« on: February 18, 2007, 04:11:58 AM »

Hi all,

I'm interested to know if anyone has a workable geotagging system running. I can tag my photos on flickr but that's once they are out of Iview. It would be nicer to store some metadata somewhere and read it into the file so that flickr/others can read it directly.

David
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 06:41:31 PM by peterkrogh » Logged
Terence Dodge
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2007, 12:08:10 PM »

Hi all,

I'm interested to know if anyone has a workable geotagging system running. I can tag my photos on flickr but that's once they are out of Iview. It would be nicer to store some metadata somewhere and read it into the file so that flickr/others can read it directly.

David

Hello Mr Buchan

I will make a couple of assumptions here ( you kindly correct me as necessary ).

You said "It would be nicer to store some metadata somewhere and read it into the file so that flickr/others can read it directly."

 This means to me that you need to manually enter the GPS data as opposed to camera w/GPS recording the data directly into the EXIF header space. So depending on the platform/box, look at "RoboGeo" for windows ( looks at most file types, JPEG, dng and others  $79.99 or such). Couple of others however I have not pursued info on them.

If apple user you have one choice that I am aware of "GPS-Photo-Linker" it is donation ware ( I started with this, only does JPEG, guy that wrote it is just entering a doctorial PhD program in Oceanography and will not be updating it anytime soon ) there may be some other programs that will let you manipulate EXIF header info but I  am not aware of them.

Please visit versiontracker.com  for either some other EXIF editor or to find a link for "GPS-Photo-Linker" to download.

Terence
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 06:36:51 PM by Terence Dodge » Logged
peterkrogh
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2007, 06:38:38 PM »

David,
I've just started playing with this technology.  While it seems incredibly promising, the tools seem to be largely missing.  I'm tagging lots of new images in-Camera (Nikon has built-in support), and will start working with them in earnest later this year.

I can see lots of needs - mostly ones that interface with DAM software.I'd like to be able to link the IPTC location fields up to a Google (or other) database to suck GPS data back into the database record

I think there needs to be some kind of margin of error tag that goes with this.  If I have photos shot in Boston, I don't want to have to choose an arbitrary place as the location, I'd like to choose a vector-drawn area. (not sure if the current spec could suport that.)

I'd like a much better interface to navigate through coordinates and time.  It' kind of a 4 dimensional problem.

I'll spin off a separate group for those who want to talk about this stuff.
Peter
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David C. Buchan
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 06:56:02 PM »

Thanks for the links Terence.

One of the problems I see with products such as RoboGeo or even linking directly through flickr is they require me to remember the locations or re-set them each time. It would be nice if coordinates could be stored against a location in iView and use a script to put it into the jpegs (using exiv2) for example. Then I can export my jpegs for flickr, run a script over them to prepare the metadata and upload once. Flickr then does the rest of the work.

And I would do this without touching the original files.

David
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johnbeardy
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 09:49:27 PM »

David

I've never heard of exiv2 but it seems to have a command line utility, that accepts arguments, so in theory should be scriptable from iView. I don't see geographical exif items in the spec, though. You could store the co-ordinates in a custom field(s) but you would have to be very consistent in data entry. possibly a job for the vocab editor?

John
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Dierk
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2007, 12:45:55 AM »

For a few weeks now I have a still clumsy solution: Nikon D21x, Nikon D200, an MC-35 cable by Nikon, a Garmin GPS 72 plus Garmins original serial cable. It works, and with some ball bungees or velcro cable binders the whole set-up doesn't take too much space.

The downsides are obvious, the Garmin serial cable is long, the GPS 72 is big, Nikon's cable is a bit bulky, Nikon's 10-pin connector is - as with all their cables - a drag.

A bit of personal history:

Last year I got myself a Wintec WBT-100, a very small Bluetooth GPS receiver, which orignally should provide my LOOX with data for routing. During long and dark winter evenings I thought it would be a good idea to use the Wintec for my cameras. So I started researching and buying cables and adaptors - from mini USB B to USB A, from USB A to 9-pin D-sub, from 9-pin D-sub to female D-sub, which would then connect to the MC-35. This surely isn't the most viable connection, electrically or mechanically but should work.

It doesn't - and not because there's too many adabptors in-between; actually the lengths of this non-solution was much shorter than the Garmin-Nikon solution. The problem is the USB part, Nikon's cameras don't read them, even if the data itself comes in NMEA protocol. The problem here is that even Garmin abandons the old serial standard, newer devices come with USB connections, some seem to have both, USB and the old, round Garmin plug. Sadly the proprietary Garmin plug on those is not the same as the old one, they are meant to connect external power or probably an antenna but not to send data to other devices.*

I stumbled some commercial [but self-made looking] solutions like Red Hen, which are very expensive and use the camera's hotshoe to hold the [big] Garmin/Magellan devices. Either the developers are no photographers ... Much more interesting was a DIY solution by a guy on DPreview, who had come up with a Bluetooth receiver to connect via Nikon's 10-pin to the camera. Alas, he did not get back to me. would be nice to have that, as one could then put a small BT receiver into each camera, both getting the GPS data from an equally small GPS receiver. Currently Nikon's 10-pin makes it  cumbersome to switch cameras during a session [unless the photographic objects are immovable].

The big downside of all software based solutions is their support of JPEG only. I need my data in RAW files.

There's not much convincing me to upgrade from my current cameras to a presumed D3, one would be built-in GPS. Shouldn't be too difficult to engineer, the receiver chips are no larger than a fingernail, the whole camera body could be used as an antenna, software interface is already in Nikon's pro cameras since the D1.




*eTrex and Gecko come with a serial output, it uses a new proprietary Garmin plug; the Foretrex uses 2.5 mm streo jack. Since Garmin's cables are quite expensive I settled for a bigger device with the old plug for the cable I already own.
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Dierk

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Other: Nikon D2x, Nikon D200, Capture NX 2, Adobe Creative Suite 3
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2007, 02:00:00 AM »

I'm interested to know if anyone has a workable geotagging system running. I can tag my photos on flickr but that's once they are out of Iview. It would be nicer to store some metadata somewhere and read it into the file so that flickr/others can read it directly.

David,

Here are two ways to GEO-tag images, depending on whether you have a GPS-reciever or not:

1. Picasa and Google Earth.
Select the images in Picasa and choose Tools > Geotag > Geotag with Google Earth...
You will manually have to navigate to the location of each image. There is a "Tag all" option for images taken on the same location though.

2. Using a GPS-tracklog.
Make sure that the camera and GPS-clocks are synchronized. Log the position while taking the photos. Use some software to calculate the position based on the GPS track log and stamp the position in Exif. There are not too much software that is able do this, but RoboGeo and WWMX location stamper can. I personally prefer WWMX which is free.

As far as I know there is no way to use these techniques on RAW images. I hope this will be possible in the near future. I am, therefore, saving my track logs for later.
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David C. Buchan
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 02:47:44 AM »

Peter,

I can see lots of needs - mostly ones that interface with DAM software.I'd like to be able to link the IPTC location fields up to a Google (or other) database to suck GPS data back into the database record
I've found the 4 level IPTC fields (country, state/province/city and location) to be too limiting in number. To tie all photos to a single location can be too confining if the location is relatively large (eg. shots taken around one of the world's disneylands).

I think there needs to be some kind of margin of error tag that goes with this.  If I have photos shot in Boston, I don't want to have to choose an arbitrary place as the location, I'd like to choose a vector-drawn area. (not sure if the current spec could suport that.)
Hadn't thought of the approach of a tag error.

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David C. Buchan
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 02:50:14 AM »

I'm interested to know if anyone has a workable geotagging system running. I can tag my photos on flickr but that's once they are out of Iview. It would be nicer to store some metadata somewhere and read it into the file so that flickr/others can read it directly.

David,

Here are two ways to GEO-tag images, depending on whether you have a GPS-reciever or not:

1. Picasa and Google Earth.
Select the images in Picasa and choose Tools > Geotag > Geotag with Google Earth...
You will manually have to navigate to the location of each image. There is a "Tag all" option for images taken on the same location though.

2. Using a GPS-tracklog.
Make sure that the camera and GPS-clocks are synchronized. Log the position while taking the photos. Use some software to calculate the position based on the GPS track log and stamp the position in Exif. There are not too much software that is able do this, but RoboGeo and WWMX location stamper can. I personally prefer WWMX which is free.

As far as I know there is no way to use these techniques on RAW images. I hope this will be possible in the near future. I am, therefore, saving my track logs for later.

1. Picasa an Google Earth is not a scalable solution and by scalable I mean able to handle large volumes of images. If I come back to a location I'd rather have iView remember the coordinates for that location rather than have to go into Picasa and Google Earth again. At least for me I can't get it to work well.

2. A GPS is another piece of equipment and then there is still the need to populate the photo. Also, a GPS may put in a slightly different location per photo. Peter's concept of tag error above comes into play here.

Thanks for the ideas and for others they may work fine. For me at the moment they wont.

David
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David C. Buchan
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 02:51:59 AM »

David

I've never heard of exiv2 but it seems to have a command line utility, that accepts arguments, so in theory should be scriptable from iView. I don't see geographical exif items in the spec, though. You could store the co-ordinates in a custom field(s) but you would have to be very consistent in data entry. possibly a job for the vocab editor?

John

I've successfully scripted it from iMatch before. One of the limitations of all these tools is that they tend to be confined to JPEG only, even if the EXIF spec appears elsewhere. Vocab editor may be a good idea. I hadn't thought of that. Still fairly manual though. It would work on a per-shoot basis. I'm recataloging 8000 images.

David
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 07:20:46 AM »

>I've found the 4 level IPTC fields (country, state/province/city and location) to be too limiting in number. To tie all photos to a single location can be too confining if the >location is relatively large (eg. shots taken around one of the world's disneylands).

David,
The Location is a Child of the City, State, or country (whichever is the appropriate next level up).  So Disneyland in Anaheim, California, USA is not the same as Disneyland in Baghdad, Iraq.

I have not had time to read this whole discussion, but there seems to be some valuable expertise in this group.  I will look forward to waht we come up with.
Peter
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David C. Buchan
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2007, 04:32:25 PM »

>I've found the 4 level IPTC fields (country, state/province/city and location) to be too limiting in number. To tie all photos to a single location can be too confining if the >location is relatively large (eg. shots taken around one of the world's disneylands).

David,
The Location is a Child of the City, State, or country (whichever is the appropriate next level up).  So Disneyland in Anaheim, California, USA is not the same as Disneyland in Baghdad, Iraq.

I have not had time to read this whole discussion, but there seems to be some valuable expertise in this group.  I will look forward to waht we come up with.
Peter

I too understood location to be child of a city - your wording helps me to explain. I'm talking about the child of the child. So whereas Disneyland is a location, Space Mountain is it's child. It may not be relevant from a IPTC point of view but for fairly "accurate" GPS encoding Space Mountain is a definate sub-location.

David
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2007, 08:31:25 PM »

David,
Which points to Beardy's point in the other thread that GPS data is more durable and exact (even with margin of error discussed) than the IPTC Location hierarchy schema.

On the other hand, if most images had even *some* location information as part of the metadata it would be a pretty big improvement.

Peter
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Joe Colson
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2007, 06:58:53 AM »

I use this: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=19111479 solution posted on DPReview and it works well.  It takes a little electronics skill to implement, but it works and is not too cumbersome (the disadvantage of most solutions).

Joe
www.joecolsonphotography.com

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DirkV
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2007, 08:44:47 AM »

On my Mac I use GPSPhotoLinker. This allows me to use gps data in tracks of my Garmin Etrex device with the NEF files of my D70. I've only started recently to do this and it seems to work fine. I still need to find time to look deeper in this.

Dirk
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