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Author Topic: Aperture & DNG  (Read 18588 times)
peterkrogh
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2006, 12:41:56 PM »

Do they open in Preview?

Do you have any options for support from Apple?
Peter
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chrisgreen
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2006, 02:58:46 PM »

OK, now I am not sure what the heck is going on. I have an Aperture library with some DNG files that I imported succesfully. I can no longer find a way to import any DNG files successfully. I have tried DNG converter ver 3.4, 3.5, and 3.6. Still a work in progress. The DNG's are made from D200 NEF files, not linear. Full size JPEG preview, compressed.
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2006, 06:05:54 PM »

I'm guessing this is a bug in Aperture.  Can iView see the files?  Can you open them in Preview? (Both Aperture and Preview use Apple's Core Image to render RAW or DNG.)
Peter
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chrisgreen
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2006, 09:06:10 AM »

iView sees the DNG's just fine. Aperture sees them with a weird square format preview. After importing them, it declares them an unsupported format. It definitely seems to be an Aperture problem, possibly connected to the version of DNG conversion. I haven't tracked it down, but maybe a version older than 3.4 will work properly with Aperture. Nonetheless, I am beginning to feel like my experience with the Aperture trial may be winding up. I'm going to sum up a few observations in another post.
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Randy Sailer
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2006, 11:11:59 AM »

I can no longer find a way to import any DNG files successfully. I have tried DNG converter ver 3.4, 3.5, and 3.6.

I had the same problem, symptoms, etc. with DNG converter and .crw files....

Randy
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2006, 12:02:30 PM »

Can the Preview application that comes with Mac systems see the images?  That would let us know if it's Core Image or Aperture.
Peter
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SteveM
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2006, 06:13:15 PM »

I do not have Apreture installed so I cannot test it.

The behavior with Preview is as follows:

- Images create in July or earlier and converted to DNG open fine.
- Images created post July either open as thumbnails or fail to open. It was around this time that I started using ImageIngester.

So I just ran a test. I converted a folder of .CR2 images twice, once using ImageIngester and once using Adobe DNG Converter.

- DNG files created with ImageIngester either open as thumbnails or not at all with Preview.
- DNG files created with Adobe DNG Converter open just fine with Preview.

I'm runnig OS X 10.4.8 on a dual 2.0GHz G5 system, ImageIngester version 1.6.7, Adobe DNG Converter verison 3.6.

If I can provide anymore information please let me know.

SteveM
--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--
Note also that Apple has recently released Digital Camera RAW Support Update 1.0 (and I have installed it on my system):

http://search.info.apple.com/index.html?search=Go&lr=lang_en&kword=&&news&q=dng%20support&&type=

From the site:
"About this update
Mac OS X Tiger provides support for a variety of popular digital camera and image file formats. Applications such as Aperture, iPhoto and Preview utilize this support to work with digital camera RAW files. This update improves RAW file format compatibility for the following digital SLR cameras:

-Canon Digital Rebel XTi / 400D / Kiss X Digital
-Nikon D80
-Pentax *ist DS

Other issues addressed:

-Handling of large Canon RAW files (.CRW)
-DNG compatibility on Intel-based Macs
-Lines sometimes appearing in images exported from Aperture"
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IIP - PM - CS3 (Bridge, ACR, PS) - XM - OS X
Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2006, 07:33:10 PM »

SteveM--

I had a report in early Oct from an ImageIngester user with a similar problem, also with CR2 files. DNGs created with DNG Converter opened in Aperture (probably Aperture and Preview share the same underlying OS imaging code), but those created from DNG Converter as invoked from ImageIngester did not. We tried various theories (including one related to compression), but I could not explain the discrepency. It is possible that the behavior of DNG Converter when invoked from the command line, DNG Converter when invoked from the GUI, and ACR's generation of DNGs are slightly different.

So... I don't have an answer yet. When I get a chance (maybe next week) I can look deeper into the matter.

Ultimately, the bug may be in Aperture or in Mac OS X itself.

Personally, I always generate DNGs from NEFs with ImageIngesterPro and they open with Preview just fine. However, I don't think I'm running DNG Converter 3.6 yet, and I haven't run ImageIngester (non Pro) for a while. I'll check this out.

Meanwhile, SteveM, could you email me a CR2 file for which you see the problem so I can run my own tests?

Thanks!

--Marc
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SteveM
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2006, 07:47:31 PM »

Marc,

Thank you for the prompt reply.

A file is wisking its way through the ether to you.

As I mentioned in an email to you, I downloaded and installed the Aperture trial version and experienced the same behavior.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

SteveM
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2006, 07:52:24 PM »

Steve,
If you can send a problem DNG to me (try www.yousendit.com), I'll forward it to Thomas Knoll and see if we can get to the bottom of the problem.
Peter
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SteveM
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2006, 08:03:49 PM »

Peter,

I have sent a problem DNG.

Would you like the same image as either a CR2 (fresh form the CF card) or as a DNG that Preview and Apreture  can open?

Note that the "problem" file opens fine in Bridge and Photoshop.

Thanks,

SteveM
« Last Edit: November 09, 2006, 08:09:04 PM by SteveM » Logged

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peterkrogh
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2006, 08:37:51 PM »

Thanks, Steve, I've sent a link to Thomas.
Peter
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2006, 09:34:04 AM »

Steve,
 Thomas confirms that this is a normal, non-linearized compressed DNG file.  There's nothing he can see that should break display of the image.
Peter
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Marc Rochkind
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« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2006, 12:55:13 PM »

The CR2-to-DNG Conversion Bug

A couple of ImageIngester users have reported that DNGs created from CR2 files via ImageIngester (which invokes Adobe DNG Converter to do the work) don't open on Mac OS X with either Preview or Aperture.

I've reproduced this problem and prepared a ZIP file containing some sample CR2 and XMP files that can be used so anyone else can reproduce the problem as well. The ZIP file is at http://ImageIngester.com/ImageIngester/dev/CR2test.zip. The ZIP is about 20 MB.

(Thanks to SteveM for contributing the CR2.)

The actual problem is that DNG Converter when converting a CR2 with an XMP sidecar created from Photoshop CS2 creates an DNG that Mac OS X can't open. When it converts a CR2 without a sidecar, or when it uses a differerent sidecar (one synthesized by ImageIngesterPro), then the DNG opens OK.

To say it another way:
  • CR2 + Photoshop XMP ==> bad
  • CR2 + ImageIngesterPro XMP ==> good
  • CR2 (without XMP) ==> good

The ZIP file contains 3 exact copies of the same CR2 file and two sidecars, one created straight from Photoshop and one created by ImageIngesterPro. The third CR2 file has no sidecar.

The ImageIngesterPro-created sidecar is exactly the same sidecar created with Photoshop, except that ImageIngesterPro has rearranged it a bit and added some additional Camera-Raw-related XML.

To see the problem, use DNG Converter (e.g., Version 3.6) to convert the folder after unzipping, and then use Preview to open the resulting 3 DNGs. You will see that one of them (the one converted with the Photoshop-created XMP) doesn't open.

All three DNGs open OK, complete with metadata, in iView Media Pro and ACR.

(Note that it would be more logical for the Photoshop-created XMP to work and the ImageIngesterPro-created sidecar to fail, but logic doesn't play a role here.)

(I believe that DNG Converter's ability to do anything at all with sidecars is undocumented, as are many other properties of DNG Converter, but it's essential to allowing ImageIngester to add bulk metadata and, in the case of ImageIngesterPro, Camera Raw settings.)

I haven't yet analyzed the two sidecars to isolate the critical difference, but I thought I would post the files now to they can be turned over to Adobe.

For Mac ImageIngester users, an immediate workaround is to switch to ImageIngesterPro. I doubt that this problem affects Windows users of ImageIngester because I think it's unique to Mac OS X imaging, which is used by Preview and Aperture.

--Marc
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peterkrogh
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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2006, 02:54:28 PM »

Marc,
thanks for tracking this down.  I've copied and sent to Thomas, and we'll see. Hopefully he'll be inclined to track down the issue, rather than to simply say that it's an Apple bug (which is what it probably is).
Peter
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