Image Ranking Outside of Bridge

[Patrick Cox]

Currently I don't own Bridge and I am trying to position myself for the future when C1 adds DNG creation functionality.  One roadblock I am currently working through is Image Ranking.  I am trying to use Breezebrowser Pro to rank and keyword my CR2 files and the keyword part seems to be working well, but I am not sure about Image Ranking.  BBPro will write it's Image Ranking to the "Urgency" field in the IPTC data, but I recall reading in your book that you don't recommend using this field.  Why is this?  

Also, any other general thoughts on how I can be best positioned in my current "holding pattern" for when my converter of choice offers DNG functionality?

Thanks,
Pat

ps - Love the book!  It's right up my alley.

[peterkrogh]

Pat,
I do use the Urgency field, since it's the place that iView stores its labels.  The software is kind of "hijacking" it to do this, which is generally unadvisable, but in this instance I think it's okay. (Particularly since IPTC has "Deprecated" the field.) 

(Let me preface this next part by saying that I don't use C1 because of the problems outlined below.  It's possible that there are some present or future work-arounds, but I am unaware of them.) 

As to the C1 workflow, I think I remember reading very recently that C1 is now saying that they will only support DNG for their cameras that shoot DNG.  I think this is a huge mistake, and see two possible reasons for it.

The first, is that they have lost much of their engineering talent (the people who left and formed Pixmantec).  They may be unable to fulfill the promises that they made in the past.

The other possible reason for this change of heart is that they are afraid if they gave you a way to get your work out of C1, you might do it, and switch applications.  (The same reason that Portfolio won't let you write IPTC back to RAW files of DNG.)

For the present, I would suggest that you think of C1 like Aperture.  All the work you do there to RAW files will really only be usable on RAW files within that application, and you have no promise of ever being able to bring that work with you if you decide to adopt another workflow.  This will likely lead to some pretty severe pain sometime down the road.

The only way C1 is likely to change is through customer pressure.

Peter

[Patrick Cox]

Thanks for your comments Peter.  I have been trying to avoid "shelling out" the $300 to upgrade my PS Elements to CS2, but maybe this is my only option.  I am very in favor of minimizing the number of versions of a particular image that I have on my PC, and since I shoot RAW, the best way that I have found to make this happen is through your suggested DNG workflow.  I have been trying to make this work through applications that I currently own, but I am starting to believe that I can't make this work.

I have considered using the ACR version that comes with PS Elements, but I don't believe it has all of the funtionality of CS2's ACR version.  Oh well, decisions, decisions!!

Thanks again.
Pat

[peterkrogh]

Pat,
You can download a 30-day trial version of CS2.  You might want to do that when you have some time to experiment.
Peter

[Steve Miller]

Patrick,

I held off upgrading to CS2 from CS. I generally found that C1 and then RSP were faster and better at doing RAW conversions than ACR. However, a major problem with both of those converters (clearly highlighted in Peter's book) was that all of the work I did editing the RAW file settings was unreadable in other DAM programs or File Browser or Bridge (so when you viewed the RAW files outside of the native program, you always saw the unadjusted version. If you're at all interested in DAM (which is a safe bet if you're posting on this site), you'll soon realize that the worst thing you can do is use programs that lead to wasted time. Whatever program you choose, make sure that all of your keywords, ratings, and equally important, RAW settings are 1) viewable when using another program to look at your images (Bridge, iView Pro, etc.) and 2) travel with your archived versions.

With the guidance of Peter's extremely helpful and well writen book, I realized that CS2 with Bridge is the only current solution that meets those requirements. I made the move last week and have only recently begun to play around with Bridge and CS2. I have to say I am impressed. Not only is Bridge significantly faster than the old File Browser in CS, but after spending some time on the calibration tab (more at the end of this post), I'm very pleased with the color, even with indoor flash shots.

One other suggestion, having already bought and enjoyed Peter's book, you should also buy Bruce Fraser's Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS2 if you decide to upgrade to CS2. They are very complimentary and each will end up saving you a huge amount of time. If you're finding that you don't like the colors from ACR, make sure to spend some time on the section where Bruce details how to adjust the calibration settings for your specific camera (including where to download the calibration script from Peter Fors).

Hope this helps,

Steve

[Patrick Cox]

...As to the C1 workflow, I think I remember reading very recently that C1 is now saying that they will only support DNG for their cameras that shoot DNG.  I think this is a huge mistake, and see two possible reasons for it.

The first, is that they have lost much of their engineering talent (the people who left and formed Pixmantec).  They may be unable to fulfill the promises that they made in the past.

The other possible reason for this change of heart is that they are afraid if they gave you a way to get your work out of C1, you might do it, and switch applications.  (The same reason that Portfolio won't let you write IPTC back to RAW files of DNG.)

For the present, I would suggest that you think of C1 like Aperture.  All the work you do there to RAW files will really only be usable on RAW files within that application, and you have no promise of ever being able to bring that work with you if you decide to adopt another workflow.  This will likely lead to some pretty severe pain sometime down the road.

The only way C1 is likely to change is through customer pressure.

Peter

Peter,
I thought I would pass this information on to you.  I posted a question on the Capture One forums regarding the nature of their future support of DNG and got the following answer...

Patrick,

Closest 'Official' statement from Phase One to date is:

Quote:
When shooting with a Phase One digital back, it is necessary to process your RAW files with the Capture One software.

DNG support in Capture One is on the road map for late 2006. With this feature in place, you will be able to exchange RAW files with other applications such as Apple Aperture or Adobe Photoshop.
It is always recommended that you process RAW files from your Phase One digital back in the Capture One software for consistent, high quality results.


Regards,
kc
_________________
Phase One Support


I know that C1 planned to introduce DNG support in 2005 but it never materialized.  Let's hope it does in 2006.  We need more options for DNG workflow!

Regards,
Pat

[johnbeardy]

The other possible reason for this change of heart is that they are afraid if they gave you a way to get your work out of C1, you might do it, and switch applications.  (The same reason that Portfolio won't let you write IPTC back to RAW files of DNG.)

Bit unfair to Portfolio, Peter. They give every (informal) indication that they will introduce writeback, just they're very slow improving the software....

[peterkrogh]

John,
I know you're in contact with these folks, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt if you say so. ;-)
I do find it curious that they have held off so long in adding this capability, given how important it is. 
Peter

[johnbeardy]

Hi Peter

Being charitable at this time of year, it's certainly curious. At another time I might say it's appallingly short-sighted and has been requested many times by users.

John

[Patrick Cox]

Pat,
You can download a 30-day trial version of CS2.  You might want to do that when you have some time to experiment.
Peter

Well, I finally said the heck with it and just ordered the Canon owner PS CS2 upgrade. ($299)  I kept trying to make square pegs fit into a round hole but it just wasn't working.  Also, I really like the Bridge interface.  Even though I probably won't use half the funtionality of the CS2 editor, I am happy to get this burden off of my back and get moving again with some direction.  Thanks Peter!  Again, I love the book.  (Also, I just ordered Bruce Fraser's Real Camera Raw!)

Pat

ps - anyone looking for a used copy of C1 Pro?