Keywords from iView to iPhoto through Bridge?

[greenoak]

Greetings,

I've read the DAM book several times through and have changed my workflow quite a bit using a lot of the techniques. I'm still not sold on dng files (reasoning to come later). My current workflow is (Mac only by the way):

1) Download from Camera to a self-named folder using iView 3.1 (I shoot a mixture of both jpeg and Canon raw)
2) My Catalogues are by year.
3) I immediatly copy the folder to a DVD-media based structure in 4.4GB chunks (thanks Peter!) thereby preserving the files right out of the camera.
4) Then I go to work to assign metadata - mainly Copyright, Creator, Events and Keywords (using IPTC Core fields)
          4a) I have one main rating which is a label "Move to iPhoto"
5) I Sync Annotations back to the working originals when I'm all done.
6) Then I use iView/Action/Convert Image files to create jpegs into a temporary folder
          6a) I check all the export boxes when converting.
7) I then import into iPhoto using the Add to Library function
Finally I delete my temporary folder of converted jpeg images. I use it only for adding files into iPhoto.

It's awesome - I retain the full iView catalogue of everything (original jpegs and raw). I get my best pictures converted and/or copied to iPhoto with all the keywording available in iPhoto's easy to use Keyword interface. I also get the added benefit of having the iPhoto integration into the other iApps on my Mac.

The problem is - I've noticed - is that iView Convert Image to jpeg sort of sucks compared to Bridge/Camera Raw.

My question is - HOW, How do I get Bridge/Camera Raw to output Keyword metadata?  Because I've synced all my metadata (into the IPTC Core fields) they show up beautifully in Bridge. There they are - all my hard work - right there viewable in Bridge.  I select the stack and do a Batch Conversion into the temp folder for adding into iPhoto. I then Add to Library in iPhoto and NO Keywords. I've tried this a zillion different ways. Only straight output from iView to iPhoto brings Keywords. Aargh - I can SEE them in Bridge. Why don't they convert?

My reasoning for not making DNG files is two-fold (however lame the reasons may be). First I shoot a heavy mixture of jpeg and raw. Second I don't want to keep track of A) two catalogues or B) two images of the same thing (one dng and one raw) in my main catalogue.

What do you all think? Anyone trying something similar?

Thanks - RFord

[peterkrogh]

RFord,
Hmm, iView as a front end to iPhoto... I would not have considered this.

I think you have not explored iView's capabilities. 

As to the metadata not coming along through Bridge, how are you making the conversions (through Camera Raw, by any chance)?  Does this still happen if you use the image processor?

Your reasons for not using DNG are new ones to me also. There are some good reasons (want to use non-DNG-aware software, for instance), but yours are less compelling.  DNG actually unifies the workflow, enabling you to skip the step of creating the JPEGs from RAW.

Peter

[greenoak]

Thanks for the reply and discussion.

I have been using iView since the 1.x versions and have paid for the upgrade twice now. I like the software and am quite familiar with its functionality.

iView may be fine in a professional environment where all the users have iView, but I live in what I like to call a professional Home environment. I have a school-teacher wife and three older kids. I've become the default photographer for all of them and they all have Macs - powerbooks, ibooks etc. and I think you might have underestimated iPhoto's integration. iMovie and iDVD have automatic links to iPhoto's library AND you can share libraries easily across my whole home network (not to mention desktop integration) I find iView catalogues limited because potentially all my firewire storage devices need to be on to have access to the object. I use iPhoto to house just the best photos so they are a very small subset of objects (which the DAM book also recommends).

Lastly I can't afford a site license for iView for my home. And (to reiterate) the catalogues - even rebuilt with large thumbnails - are hampered by the fact that the source storage device has to be on ( I use several FW drives). iPhoto just works for the common user.

As for DNG, I guess my biggest problem is that I have such a mixed environment of master jpeg (large) and raw files. If I understand your workflow, I might do the following:

1) Download from Camera to a Location (let's call it the Originals location)
2) Copy to Backup Media device
3) Apply metadata
4) Convert the raw files in the Original location to DNG.
5) Delete the Original Location raw files (because you have them backed up)
6) Use the Pretty Good Picture in the DNG to export to iPhoto.

Now I have tried this - to varying degrees - but I still can't get the metadata into iPhoto. Perhaps it's when I apply the metadata. Should I apply it before conversion to DNG or After? In other words, should my (in this case) yearly iView catalogue contain only converted DNG and my Original jpegs? I usually make my iView catalogues of my RAW files. I find it much easier than Bridge to do my initial viewing - which I realize deviates from the DAM workflow.

And to answer your question - I am using Camera Raw to convert. What is Image Processor? Is that in Bridge?

Thanks - RFord

RFord,
Hmm, iView as a front end to iPhoto... I would not have considered this.

I think you have not explored iView's capabilities.  

As to the metadata not coming along through Bridge, how are you making the conversions (through Camera Raw, by any chance)?  Does this still happen if you use the image processor?

Your reasons for not using DNG are new ones to me also. There are some good reasons (want to use non-DNG-aware software, for instance), but yours are less compelling.  DNG actually unifies the workflow, enabling you to skip the step of creating the JPEGs from RAW.

Peter

[peterkrogh]

RFord,
I understand why iPhoto solves your problem.

Can't speak to the loss of metadata there, best to test, and check the iView forum.

The Image Processor is in Bridge.  (Tools>Photoshop) It's a very handy tool.
Peter

[greenoak]

Tools / Image Processor in Bridge works for transferring keywords into iPhoto. That did the trick. Why Camera Raw / Convert did not? well who knows.

Now I have to figure out a way to get the iView ratings (that I've sync'd to Camera Raw database) to show in Bridge. The ratings show for jpegs but not for cr2's.

I know that I can make a keyword from a rating, but I'd rather not.

I can see now why Peter wrote the workflow the way he did. I'm just trying to buck the trend (grin).

Well back to more testing.

-Ray Ford

[peterkrogh]

Ray,
I recently had to do this with a bunch of NEF files I shot on vacation and rated in iView.  What I did was to sync the ratings to Urgency (by making the labels in iView agree with my ratings).  I then ran Rank and File Lite in reverse in Bridge, and it set the rating to the value I had created in iView.
Peter

[danaltick]

Peter,

Can you fill me in on this reverse workflow.  I'm assuming you did that so you could use the lightbox view in iView to do your ratings.  Afterwards you move the images into Bridge for adjustments.  If I am correct here, do you prefer the lighbox mode over the Bridge filmstrip mode?  Also, I don't own R&F lite.  Can I do this with the normal R&F?  Thanks.

Dan

[peterkrogh]

I did this in iView since it was more responsive for the kinds of tasks I wanted to do on location. I was making lots of subgroups of tags (landscapes, architecture, churches, castles, Tivoli, Nicols Family, etc.)  I also needed to work on images that were resident on my external drives, but local to the laptop, and therefore not easily accessible on the plane.

R&F Lite will be free to everyone who has Rank and File.  Drop me a line, and I'll send you a copy.
Peter

[danaltick]

Peter,

If I understand you correctly, you just re-ordered your workflow by creating the catalog sets and the ratings in iView up front while on location.  When you got home, you then performed your adjustments in Brdge after exporting your metadata from iView, and followed that with the DNG conversion and archiving.

You can just use yousendit with my forum email addresss to send me a copy of R&F Lite.

Thanks,
Dan

[clarence]

I too had an issue similar to above, where my iView keywords were no longer converted to Flickr tags even though they clearly showed up as IPTC keywords in Bridge in my DNG files.  The solution (suggested above) was to use Image Processor instead of ACR.  Thanks for solving the problem for me.