Robert/Frank-
Thanks for the useful replies. (I really appreciate this aspect of the DAM forum- a knowledgeable group of folks who really help anyone with questions. Very refreshing).

A few things:
1. I followed links on service pack, but I keep seeing reference to 'trial period'. Did both of you see this? It still looks like they want me to uninstall EM before installing SP1. (Perhaps I am missing the proper page to install SP1 from- both Robert's reference and a Google search leading to the MS install page mention 'trial period' and have instructions that include 'uninstall first').

2. I was wondering what issues Robert had run into using iView. I am using it on a Dell PC, Vista, with two catalogs of about 3K images each, and I haven't encountered anything. Just curious (...so I'll know what to brace myself for!)

3. I will be following Robert's suggestion of continuing to work with iView; this has been my plan from the start when buying iView w/ EM free upgrade. Stay with the mature product until the little tyke (EM) gets through puberty. (Now that's a scary analogy, as I think about it).
Thanks again.
Bill

Robert-
A few questions. (I bought iView while free upgrade to EM still available, and have both iView and EM installed on my PC-Vista. I registered the iView and the EM).

1. I didn't get any notice about the service pack 1. Were registered users supposed to have been notified, do you know? Will there be customer notification of version 2, I wonder, or do we have to find out for ourselves?

2. Are instructions for users (not trial versions) actually requiring an uninstall of EM, and THEN an install of the new version of EM? Or are these instructions for trial users (then what do non-trial users do?)
----------
(from instructions)
You will need a Windows Live ID to download this Trial. If you do not have a Windows Live ID, please visit Windows Live and create one before attempting to download.
Windows Vista™ or XP

   1. Please uninstall any earlier version of Expression Media.
   2. Download and install Apple QuickTime® 7.1.5 or later
   3. Download and install Expression Media (13.3 MB)
   4. If asked for a product key, click the Continue button for a 60-day trial.
----------

3. And what is Windows Live, and if you happen to know, why am I having to set up an account?

4. Just curious: Are folks who are using iView (and who have, but are not using EM right now) going to do the Service Pack 1 upgrade? Or just wait, keep using iView, and when EM v2 comes out, then update?

I am troubled by this complexity and lack of clarity- if I uninstall my EM and there is a problem, then I have to argue my way through the microsoft jungle to get going again. How is it that Microsoft can't simply do an upgrade like every other piece of software they have? (I don't see anyone having to totally uninstall IE when an upgrade is announced).

I think iView is excellent, and I am hopeful for EM as an application. I just don't understand the way Microsoft is handling things. I see that the EM blog is very breezy and chatty; yet the application and administration of EM is very complex and rather confusing.

Thanks for any thoughts.
Bill

Dan-
Again, thanks for articles list- I've looked at several already. When I was referring to proprietary, I meant that I feel more comfortable with files 'looking' like my original files, rather than having to rely on the proprietary application accessing them for me. (So I'd imagine that mirroring software, especially if files were not compressed, comes closest to this goal).

Actually, the above is a bit of a 'tempest in a teapot'- what I am after, when it is all said and done, is backup with a reliable application to protect me from data loss. I can live with either type of app (mirror or imaging), as long as I feel confident that when that internal drive dies, I have my files protected elsewhere.

I will continue reading up on all of this, but would like to start with one of the two applications to actually get some backup protection while I research further. I am now thinking of trying Genie first, being the 'mirror' type of app. I realize that there is still the issue of disaster recovery, so I will eventually also examine Acronis.

Two other quick points:
- You mentioned that you back up DAM media manually. I conclude this is because when you've filled bucket_01, and have backed it up onto other drives/DVD, then you are essentially finished with it, and don't have to do any further backing up.

- Re games and kids: I also make occasional use of my 11 and 14 year old nephews to help me with various technologies that frustrate me. (This includes connecting and operating old VCR machines- the least friendly technology 'handshake' ever). They are very handy to have around!
Bill

Dan-
Thanks for the reference. I've also been reading over many of the backup threads here, as well. I realize I may have had a mistaken understanding of things. I misunderstood the use you were putting Acronis to (I thought it was your main backup tool).

I now think that Genie is more what I ought to be focusing on- I am interested in backing up, and in having files with their original types (.jpg, etc) rather than a folder of proprietary files. I read in one thread that Genie  results in this original file structure. Is this correct?

 I see that you are using Genie as the backup, and Acronis as the disaster recovery. Is this why you have a small C partition, so you can image it with Acronis without having to image an either un-partitioned drive?

I'll have to read up a bit more- I guess I didn't understand fully the difference between mirror and imaging, either. I am definitely far more knowledgeable after these information exchanges with you, Peter, and other thread posters. Thanks.
Bill

Dan-
Thanks for further advice. I am bouncing between this thread and the 'Guidance on backing up' elsewhere. I wanted to ask you here about partitioning.

Are you suggesting that my main internal HD (500 gig) should be partitioned? Would this be for applications in one partition, data in the other? (I've never partitioned disks before for personal use- on the other hand, that was in the 60 gig HD days, and I've not had experience with the 'vast open spaces' of a really big disk before).

And would I be partitioning into a series of partitions- ie, partition into 10 50-gig partitions?

You mentioned a 20 gig partition. Even for applications, that seems almost too small to store anything much (did you mean 200 gigs, perhaps?)

I assume the idea of a partition here is that making a mirror backup could be done partition-by-partition, so one could do a section of a gigantic disk rather than having to do the whole 500 gigs.

Any thoughts or further explanations appreciated.
Bill

The Q, from further reading about 'mirroring' and Acronis is this:

Is the backup plan described here by Peter properly handled with a 'mirroring' app? I see (read below) that Acronis uses a proprietary file format- and I, like Peter also noted, wonder if saving in a proprietary format is a safe/wise idea. Yet a program like Acronis seems to be a very good idea.

I read the following in a review of Acronis:
------------------------------
The files created by True Image during a backup are referred to as archives, and have a .tib (short for True Image Backup) extension.
www.barrys-rigs-n-reviews.com/reviews/2007/utilities/ti10/ti10_1.htm

Not only can you access and restore individual files and folders from archives by mounting an image archive as a “virtual disk,” but you can also load file-by-file archives directly in Windows Explorer with the new Explore Backup Archive feature.
www.barrys-rigs-n-reviews.com/reviews/2007/utilities/ti10/ti10_3.htm
------------------------------

So again, a solution seems to depend on a proprietary format. The Acronis app seems to be well regarded, and files can be examined in a typical windows explorer way.

Any thoughts on mirror/proprietary-files vs some other file-by-file backup application?
Thanks.  Bill

Dan-
Wondering if your suggestion of Acronis True Image given to Peter also applies to my setup.

You said earlier: "Peter, for a laptop, I would probably just use Acronis and image the internal drive to an external every so often."

My setup is a single desktop Dell XPS, internal 500 gig HD, vista; I now have a USB external drive- Western Digital 500 gig. My internal HD is only 100 gig full, and I am not likely to fill it soon. Files are home/business, iView images and catalog, Office documents, music, etc. Apps include iView/EM, Photoshop suite, Dreamweaver, other graphics apps.

For basic DAM type backup, it sounds like using Acronis True Image would suffice (I'm just on a big desktop instead of a laptop). Would you agree?

Also- if for some reason the USB external drive cannot be used as a boot drive (I see some questions here regarding this), then what ought one do in this one-computer scenario? Can I make a bootable CD perhaps, and then run apps from the backed up external HD? (I may not be stating this Q clearly, sorry)

Thanks for all info- Bill

Thanks Peter for the instant backup seminar- extremely helpful, cut through a lot of the fog for me.

I'm reading in the Backup area, as you suggested. I'll start by looking into the Acronis and Genie solutions, as I've seen Dan (danaltick) recommending in those threads.

Much obliged.
Bill

Peter-
Thanks for the reply. Helps a great deal. Let me get clarification on a few things:

1. Re your stmt: "A full copy of my laptop hard drive that contains system etc.  You can boot from this copy, hence the term bootable copy."

Are you essentially doing a simple 'copy' of the C: folder (that is my internal HD)? Asking this because I don't fully understand whether a straight copy does in fact represent a 'bootable copy'. I thought that programs like the OS and Photoshop would not work as copies.

2. one HD or two: does the 'bootable backup', if it is of the whole internal HD, have to be its own HD? And then an 'archives' HD as a second HD? If I did this, I guess there would be even more security for the backup HD by physically disconnecting it from the system when not needed.

3. Is this backup schedule correct (based on your comments in another thread):
-working folder gets backed up daily (or more, depending on what you are doing)
-archives get backed up (using buckets) when necessary
-'boot' backup when a major system change is anticipated or has been implemented.

Thanks for the help. It is funny how I never worried much about the shoeboxes of photos, but now am very attentive to properly saving digitized images.
Bill

I have what are probably novice questions concerning backup mechanics, which I hope someone might have some help to offer-  My setup: dell xps vista computer w/ 500 gig internal hd; I've just added an external HD, western digital 500 gig. Backup software is EMS Restrospect express.

Several Q's-
1. Selecting 'backup' of entire HD (about 100gig full), I wind up with (I guess) backup files, with 'restore points'- my question- is this the 'backup' that Peter and DAM book is referring to? Or should I be copying files, so I see the same files as I see in directories of my internal HD. (I dont feel too comfortable with these 'backup' files, since I can't see what they contain).

1a. I found that doing 'backup' on 100 gigs took 1 1/2 hours- seems awfully slow, but I have no frame of reference.

2. (I know this is a novice Q, but...) What exactly is everyone talking about when term 'bootable drive' is being used? Is this just the OS and programs I use, or is it the entire internal HD? Do I have to back up the whole drive to achieve this?

3. Backup vs. copy: can I do both on a single external HD? Or should there be a dedicated HD for 'backup, or 'bootable'; and a second HD for day-to-day file copies?

4. Recommended software? (I've seen references in this topic, wondering if people's preferences are still the same as I've read)

Realizing there may be too many Q's, and also that this is probably basic stuff for many of you. I'd like to (1) protect my file assets (digital images, catalogs, music, and all documents; and (2) be able to reconstruct my OS/programs/preferences if something catastrophic occured.

Thanks for any info. --Bill

Peter-
Just back online after being away for 2 wks- thanks for your advice. Makes sense to do system wide update before a major change/update, and to do selective frequent updating as necessary for media/ iview database, etc.

You mentioned your needing to work your system out on new Vista machine- is there anything particularly different/unique about doing this on a Vista platform, or were you just making a general comment about working on any new system? (I assume the latter- I figure the backup niceties are basically part of the backup software and the external HD, and I wouldn't think that the OS would make much of a difference).

Bill

I'll definitely give that a look when I get back from a short trip- thanks, Dan.
Bill

Er...... 'So:' nothing. Didn't see that at the bottom of last post. QA/QC problems....

Sorry Peter, not enough info given:

- Dell XPS 410 desktop, Vista OS, using iView for catalogin

- internal HD: only the 1 internal HD 500 GB:
-- personal and solo business data/docuents
-- images (3K photographs, 1K of image 'clippings', in 2 iView catalogs)
-- mp3 music
-- this HD is about 100 GB full (out of 500 GB)

- 2nd, backup HD: just got an external Western Digital SATA 500 GB  HD. Not yet even connected.

- I figure to eventually set up home network, and probably will eventually hang a larger HD onto the network. But that is in the future. Right now I am thinking of using the internal HD as primary, with the external HD as my backup.

Which, by the by, is a Q I should ask now, before taking the external HD out of the plastic:

Should I consider, as of right now, going with a larger 2nd HD? I thought that if I needed to expand later, I would eventually make both of these HD's primary, and make a 3rd bigger HD as the backup, and so on.

I think a problem for me (and others, perhaps) is that I have a hard time imagining that I will ever push the 500 GB internal drive limit... but if I start shooting in RAW, I assume Raw and DNG files are much larger than I  am accustomed to- so perhaps I should start thinking 'bigger' even now.

Hopefully this states my situation more completely. Thanks.
Bill

So:

Hi-
As I am getting going with iView, and cataloging images, I am now working on a sound backup plan of action (I do have photos and catalog backed up on DVD for the moment, so I am protected in a basic sense right now). I have a 500 gig internal HD (only barely filled, of course). Planning to get a matching size external HD for protection purposes (I am still years away from multidrive or TB size drives). I have about 3K images from photos, about 1K images of my internet image 'clip file'. I figure to add about 2-3K images annually to catalogs.

My Qs relates to backing up photos/catalog vs. backing up the entire hard disk. I am reading/re-reading the DAM book, but would appreciate a brief recap of the following:

1. When Peter mentioned backup before/after in this thread (re OS and apps), is this a complete backup of entire internal (main) HD? Is this what is referred to as 'ghosting' a drive? (How do I do this- specific software for this task?)

2. Is there a separate backup schedule to be followed for photos/catalogs specifically? I would assume 'yes', since a full backup would only be done occasionally (as I understand this thread), while I'd figure photos/catalog should be backed up whenever new photos are added to the database. Is this correct?

3. (Again, maybe a newbie Q) Can/should I use the same external HD for both the system backup (Q 1) and also for the photo/catalog backup (Q 2)? At this point for me, one external HD would be preferable, but what is good DAM practice on this?

Thanks for any info.
Bill