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1  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: January 22, 2011, 03:14:30 AM
Hi Dadre:

Sorry, no experience with Drive Genius.  And in fact, maybe I am not a genius regarding putting new drives in service.  This is my first machine with Time Machine.  Ater I hit zero out data, I thought ooops, should I have turned off Time Machine?  Hmmmmm...I suppose it doesn't really matter - might just take longer to zero out.

I'm happy to say that all my drives from OWC seem to pass Volitans expectations nicely.  No bad sectors for once!  Though one drive (Hitachi Deskstar 2 TB) has a CRC error count of 2.  I'm not sure what that means.  Any elucidation appreciated.

I have a OWC 200Gb RE SSD for a boot drive on my new MacPro, 3.3 Ghz, 6 core, 24 Gigs of memory.  I have to email the Volitans developer and see what he says about SMART reporting on SSDs.  It passed; but it sure brought up some huge and strange numbers for Raw Read Error Rate, Power on hours which must be in seconds (as it's 15 digits long), hardware ECC recovered, Unknown Attribute 192 and total LBAs written and read also 192 (this figure is 0 on my traditional HDDs). 

I got an Eizo CG243W and couldn't be happier - got a deal I couldn't refuse.  Unopened box for major less since high volume, high end buyer who bought about 100 for employees bought about 5 too many.  I had almost gone for the NEC that everyone is raving about and comes to about $1,000 cheaper when you add in the cost of the Color Munki (or other device) needed for the Eizo.  But where I got it from sells both displays.  Apparently LG manufactures the panels for both; but is held to strict guidelines on the Eizo.  This translates into:  you can get a great NEC; but as quality control is down (about 1/3 of them are a bit off) and they probably won't last as long.  The NEC is 27" and my Eizo is only 24 - they of course have a 30" too (both mfgs) and Eizo is about to come out with a 27".  B&W had great prices year end on the NEC PAW or whatever it was called.  Slight glitch when first powered up Display Port (to mini DP) but rapidly troubleshot and works like a gem.

Good luck on your decisions!!  An expensive undertaking; but I'm really happy so far; but just in set up and load programs, erase drives, etc.  stage.  We'll see how the SSD holds up.  3TB Hitachis
seem good.

2  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: January 19, 2011, 04:13:39 PM

I use two utilities; both are for Mac.
One has nice reports:  SMART Utility by Volitans Software.
The other stays on in the background all the time and is supposed to notify you if any issues (red light/green light):  SMARTReporter, free open source software which you can download

I think I prefer the Volitans; but why not use both?

I think SMART reporting is not 100% dependable; but if it tells you there is a problem, it's worth investigating.

Now I have to get the updates for my new MacPro!

Barbara Miller
3  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Archival Discs on: December 09, 2010, 09:38:00 PM
I am still considering a Blu Ray Burner; but as I'm about to buy a new Mac Pro and a new wide gamut monitor, and other goodies, I may put off this purchase.
In the meantime, I want to buy some archival DVDs.  In both the Dam Book and DP Bestflow it seems that the recommendation is for Delkin or Taiyo Yuden Gold and that DVD+R is recommended as it has more ECC.
I have again searched online and can't find any DVD+R that are archival.  Delkin Gold seems to be DVD-R and appears to have a bunch of stuff printed on the face of these DVDs which makes me wonder if they will last long, much less 300 years.
B+H seems to be endorsing the Verbatim archival, which is both Gold and Silver and another metal process, again DVD-R.  I even checked Light Impressions and other supply places known for archival storage in the art world.  Each of these archival houses also only
carry DVD-R, from different manufacturers (Kodak, eFilm).  Any suggestions?  Or has anyone found a BluRay disc that seems suitable?  Or recommended BluRay burner?


Barbara Miller

4  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: Computers on all the time? on: December 09, 2010, 08:46:27 PM
H Bill:

I too wonder about whether it is advisable to leave hard drives/tower on 24/7 (another of your postings in a different section).  I also like to have my backups run in the "night" - actually around 3:45 a.m. since MacGurus once told me that Mac OS does it's own maintenance automatically at around 3 a.m. (so scheduled back-up so it wouldn't collide). 
They also told me once that it is fine to leave HDDs on 24/7 as what wears them out (other than heat) is powering them on and off.
But now if I get an OWC SSD for boot/OS on soon-to-buy Mac Pro, I wonder about 24/7.  Also I have been known to set Lightroom to create previews and then go to bed (to resume work early a.m.) but alas that scenario often would have my Chronosync backup performing while Lr was open (which Peter advises against in DPBestflow). 

Barbara Miller
5  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: MacGuru's Burly vs. G-Tech G-Speed vs. WiebeTech RTX400 on: December 09, 2010, 08:43:42 PM
Hi Bill:

Thanks again for response.

I found out a little more info that I'll add to the forum, hoping that most of it is correct now:
It seems that SATA specifications don't approve cables longer than 2 meters.
All Firmtek/Seritek enclosures have fans.
I guess the decline in speed due to PM is more of an issue with RAID, and I intend to use JBOD.

Barbara Miller
6  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: MacGuru's Burly vs. G-Tech G-Speed vs. WiebeTech RTX400 on: December 07, 2010, 03:20:13 PM
Thanks, Bill:

Appreciate the input.  You do connect through port multiplication, right?


Barbara Miller
7  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: MacGuru's Burly vs. G-Tech G-Speed vs. WiebeTech RTX400 on: December 07, 2010, 12:50:10 AM
I have a Burly 2-bay and am just about to buy another 2-bay unit as this seems to be the best way to direct connect (rather than port multiply).  Though Mac Gurus urges me towards a 5 Bay Burly with PM and raid pairing.  I also feel more comfortable having my main archive on JBOD, rather than RAID. 
My only complaint with the 2-bay unit is noise, lots of it.  The white noise tends to lull me to sleep and just be all around unpleasant. They say that the 5 bay Burly is a lot quieter as a bigger fan is quieter but then I think you need to use port multiplication. 

Lloyd Chambers says FirmTek is very quiet  - seems like the older 2 bay has a user controlled 3 speed fan, which supposedly is quiet even on highest setting.  The new FirmTek 2 bay unit claims to be low power usage, low heat, no fan required - not sure that I trust this. Firm Tek also makes a 4 bay unit which supports direct connect and has fans supposedly quiet.

Wiebetech seems to have one 2 bay eSata unit that takes drive trays (but supposedly noticeable fan noise, power supply in enclosure, and USB2 port - so does that mean to access eSata go through bridge board?).

Does anyone else have any experience with any of these other enclosures?
I do like the fact that the Burly is so flexible to change. (and that it comes with Mac Gurus support).  I could probably just stay with the existing Burly, get higher capacity drives (go from 1.5 to 2 TB) and get the longest cables I can so I can put the noisy box further from my workspace, (and use my existing drives for expanding bucket back up on hard drives).

Barbara Miller
8  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: New hard drive prep workflow? on: November 03, 2010, 12:14:38 AM
Peter's info on DPBestflow is the best for this.  Shows you how for MAC or windows.  Video demonstrations.

Info on SMART info is in a different section, same website.
I have both SMART Utility and SMART Reporter.

Lots of bad sectors, and growing worse fast is a drive to return.  What is lots?  (Maybe more than 10?  Think maybe Peter chimed in on this once).

Barbara Miller

9  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: New Mac Pro tower on: November 03, 2010, 12:05:18 AM
Ha!  I thought I was the only person still on OSX.4.11!
But since I'm still on a laptop, and you both have G5s, I think I'm going to get the biggest performance rush when I get my Mac Pro.
I too, am asking a lot of the same questions that you are.  If you go deep into Lloyd Chamber's blog and Mac Performance Guide that you sent the link to,
a lot of his answers to these questions are there (like his tests on Ps and multiple cores, etc.).  I respect him a lot, and also think Mac Gurus are great.  Even with these wonderful resources, it's a challenge
to figure out best solution personally.  I think I'm going to spring for one of Lloyd's consultations and then I'll decide whether to go his recommended configuration for my needs, or follow Mac Gurus guide
to separate out users folder; but I just saw that they have a new section on their website with info on SSDs.  Ah, more homework.

Going to Createasphere tomorrow and going to get to see Eizo Coloredge monitors, hopefully the one I want CG243W,
after going to an intensive on Canon (HDSLR).

Let us know what you decided on and if you're pleased.  I have CS5 and Lr3 on the shelf, just waiting for my tower and new OS.

Barbara Miller
MacBookPro, 2.4GHz ntel Core2 Duo, 4Gb ram, 500GB 7200Seagate drive
2 bay Burly, with bunch o Seagates
Cinema screen 23"
Nikon D700
10  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: November 02, 2010, 11:14:19 PM
Interesting!  OWC also is pro-Hitachi now, mentioning known issues with Seagates.
So far my Seagates are OK.  SMART says 500Gb laptop drive is A-OK.  One 1500 has 3 bad sectors and another 1500 has now 7 bad sectors.
Will keep watching them.

Peter, how does one Prepare SSDs for Service (for boot or scratch), and do you think it's getting to be time yet?
Guess there's no SMART with them?  They make me a bit nervous just from experiences that I've had with compact flash cards in cameras.
Could one make a bootable clone from a SSD to a traditional hard drive with the same capacity (Gb that is)?

Going to Createasphere tomorrow.   Smiley

Barbara Miller
(Determined to get a Mac Pro before the end of the year)
11  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: March 13, 2010, 09:01:44 PM
Hi Peter:

Yeah, when you go to forums, it seems like the final cut pro folk are pro not journaling to gain speed and it seems like most others are in favor of journaling.

And thanks for the comment on the GUID process.

Interesting:  Seagate replaced my drive (about 40 days old - couldn't get to it right away) with a certified rebuilt drive.  I complained, so now they are sending me a new replacement.  Probably doesn't really matter as it seems some drives are good & some bad and who knows maybe certified rebuilt is better.....but.......

It is interesting that all of my 1.5TB drives had at least one bad sector (actually the one with one is now 3), while the 1TB had no bad sectors.  It may point to them not having bigger down yet, or maybe it's just a fluke.

12  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: March 05, 2010, 02:21:46 PM

I am returning that bad drive to Seagate.

They were all brand new drives (just over 30 days old) - full retail - from MacGurus.  I just zeroed out another Seagate 1.5TB that was drop-shipped (when MacGurus ran out).  It only has 1 bad sector, so we are on the upswing here.

A few curious things:  the ones that did not come installed in the Burly enclosure, were packaged in anti-stat bags like you show OEM drives come packaged (a photo in dpbestflow or the Dam Book) but they were full retail drives (per MacGurus and Seagate).

Re zeroing out and partitioning:

MacGurus recommends just erasing the hard drive Mac OS Extended (not journaled unless it's a boot or start up drive) and not creating the one partition first with GUID, since if you zero out on an INTEL machine, it will automatically format with GUID partition map.
They said the drive will be very slightly faster without journaling and if used to store photos the cache or commands are too long and complex to benefit from journaling.  However on a start up drive running journaled is helpful as the OS will be using shorter commands and can also benefit from the cache.

Any comments on journaling vs. not journaled?  And manually creating the partition vs. allowing the Intel machine to do automatically?

Any other software recommends for SMART data on MAC?  Or is SMART Utility the best since it creates reports with SMARTMONTOOLS?


13  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: e-sata Sonnet JOBD box drives dismounting after 15 minutes on: March 05, 2010, 12:35:54 AM

Have you tried running SMART Utility on the Seagate drives?  Not that that's the issue with dismounting, etc.  It sounds like that's another problem.

But I have looked at results from SMART Utility on 2 of these 1.5TB drives.  One only shows 3 reallocated bad sectors and passes self tests.  The other was growing bad sectors faster than weeds in springtime:  going from 138  to 224 in mere hours with more pending, and failing self tests.
So, indeed it seems to be a drive worth returning.  Even though you got them 6 months ago on Amazon, I think Seagate will still honor the warranty.  But maybe some are good and some are bad.  I'm beginning to think this is normal with hard drives.

Good luck on your quest.  Isn't it frustrating, when all you want to do is get your photos in order with sufficient on and off line backups and get on with life!  But I guess better to solve problems before precious data is on the hard drives than after.

14  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: March 05, 2010, 12:21:17 AM

The "Burly 2" was tanking fast per Smart Utility - today merely hours after the last 138 reallocated bad sectors, it was repporting 26 pending bad sectors, 26 removed bad sectors and 224 reallocated bad sectors.

Seagate said return that faililng drive.  They did not offer a utility for MAC to test drives (Seatools only working on Windows).  First they said over 100 reallocated bad sectors is highly questionable, then tech support said they would return the drive if more than 12-15 reallocated bad sectors.

I ran a long self test on "Burly 1" and it passed, so I will put it into service, monitoring it as I go.  It is still showing 3 reallocated bad sectors, which seems an expected amount.

I gather from internet research that once sectors have been reallocated, they will remain as such.  There may be some commands to repair for super geeks; but it doesn't seem to really be an issue.

I'm still curious if Smart Utility is the prefered utility for MAC to monitor hard drives or if someone has found something they like better.


15  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / SMART Reporting and Preparing New Drives for Service on: March 03, 2010, 07:48:35 PM
I just posted this under "Bootable Clone" and then saw the "New Topic" button, so please forgive for posting twice; but I thought it might be better to put it under a new topic:

I have been looking at SMART reports on my hard drives.  Which SMART utility do you find to be the most useful and reliable for MAC?

Smart Reporter passes 3 drives tested - current Momentus in MBPro, and 2 Seagate 1.5TB drives in Burly enclosure (can't seem to access reports).

Smart Utility calls them all out as failing - ("Burly 1 and Burly 2" are just names I have given drives - I know not nearly as interesting as Ludicrus, et al)

Momentus due to airflow temp, which I gather is not always an accurate indicatior of failure (between 32 and 41 C)

"Burly 1" (Seagate 1.5TB) after zeroing out:  3 reallocated bad sectors (passed short scan test)

"Burly 2" (Seagate 1.5TB)  before zeroing: 7 pending bad sectors, 7 removed bad sectors, 112 reallocated bad sectors. read failure - short offline scan test
"Burly 2" after zeroing:  138 reallocated bad sectors, read failure - short offline scan test

My plan is:
test the Momentus weekly (this is the one in my MBPro that I plan to change out for 500 GB drive)

Try to zero out the "Burly 1" again - either just once or a 7 pass erase (that's maybe too long without a computer!)

Probably try to return the "Burly 2" - as it doesn't seem promising.

What do you think?  I just want to get my photos on bigger external hard drives, with multiple back-ups and get on to other things in my life; but
if SMART Utility is at all accurate in reporting bad sectors - it seems like I should deal with this now rather than after putting the drives in service.

Note:  these drives still have no data on them. 

Should I put even just a few GB of data on them before testing SMART data or is that irrelevant?



MBPro 3,1
OS 10.4.11
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Seagate Momentus 7200, 160 GB

Burly 2 bay enclosure with:
2 Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB drives:  ST31500341AS, with CC1H firmware
Sonnet Tempo 2 Port Express 34 Pro SATA Host Card

P.S.  Tech Tool Pro does not support this express card for SMART reporting
(Still have 2 more drives to zero out and test)
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