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31  DAM Stuff / Keywords and Controlled Vocabulary / Re: Catalog Sets and hierarchical / non-hierarchical keywords on: April 21, 2008, 11:08:17 AM
For what it's worth, I just finished keywording 10,000 (weird, it's exactly 10,000) images in Lightroom.   I had imported many of them from "flat keyword" set ups in iView/EM and it wasnt' too much trouble to create heirarchies out of them.    I'm mostly keywording for personal use (and for some volunteer work).

First, all of my keywords are unique.  So, once I wrote all of my keywords into the RAW files from EM, I just imported them into LR.  LR picked them up and showed the flat keywords in its keyword list.

Second, I created the heirarchies in LR.   That is, I created a few parent keywords and then dragged the child keywords into them.   So that, for example, the keywords "mom", "dad", "babyG" etc. were dragged to a parent keyword called ">Family".  etc. etc. etc.   (BTW, I use that ">" only so that the keywords, which sort alphabetically, will be sorted with the parent keywords at the top of my list, for easy finding).

Third, I'm still finding stray keywords (say, based on misspellings and on a batch of 1,000+ images that I just rediscovered yesterday) but these are easily incorporated into the heirarchal system.  For example, I recently acquired a new person named "Ben" in the family, in addition to a friend of mine named "Ben".   I changed the latter to "BenD", and put it under ">Friends" and then brought in the new keyword "BenG" and put it under the parent "Family".   And, to transition from something like a misspelled "BneG" to "BenG", I first select all the "BneG" images, then add the "BenG"keyword to them, and then remove the "BneG" keyword form the images and delete it from the database.

As I understand it, the keyword heirarchy would still work if I had two "Bens" under different parents BUT I think that's setting things up for confusion later so I have only unique keywords in my system.  I don't know if I'd have the same flexibility if I had the same keywords appearing under different parents.

MY POINT:  This all is a long way of saying that if you set up with unique keywords which are flat, they should be very easy to transition to a heirarchal system (or to adjust that heirarchy later) in whatever program you're in.  That's the case in LR anyway.  And one key lesson that I took away from Peter's DAM book is to always have a way out of your current DAM program (I'm paraphrasing horribly here, but you want to keep your future options open).

On another note, I thought I had received word that EM now supported heirarchal keywords.....or maybe that's just their new beta?   

In any case, one issue with the EM catalog sets is that they are not recognized by or exportable to other programs.   In my case, I also was using Catalog Sets (so that I could have heirarchies) and ended up adding the lowest level set as keywords to the images based on their catalog sets.  There is actually a script I used for that which did that automatically in EM.


32  Software Discussions / Choosing Software/Other DAM Applications / Re: What is missing to Idimager to be the best DAM software ? on: April 18, 2008, 05:59:26 AM
Mac compatibility.  Well, that's my narrow perspective on it anyway Grin.
33  Software Discussions / Lightroom / LR2beta and XMP question on: April 10, 2008, 11:10:25 AM
I'm testing out the beta version of LR2 and plan to use (a copy of) my whole library with it.   I've found that from LR 1.3 I can write out metadata and LR recipes to the XMP files and then import the (copied) buckets into LR2 and it will pick up all my keywords and adjustments.

My question is this:  after I'm done testing (and after the final version of LR2 allows direct migration of the catalog from 1.3 to 2) could I simply delete all the XMP files w/o losing or confusing anything?  I'm assuming that the info would still reside in the LR database itself so I could re-write the XMP files and delete them just for kicks ad nauseum and I wouldn't lose anthing, but just checking.

34  Software Discussions / Lightroom / Re: Lightroom 2 workflow? on: April 05, 2008, 07:41:08 AM
.....but going from 1.3 files with xmp sidecars, it looks like all the image changes (cropping, exposure, WB, etc) and heirarchal keywords carried over the v 2beta.   What's cool too is that it creates two "Snapshots" named Import and Import 2, with the first being the image before maninuplated in 1.3 and the latter being the image as reciped and imported into v2beta.   Pretty neat feature.


Frank- what do you mean in the above quote by "going from 1.3...over to the v 2beta...". Did you export/ingest or sync or something else to get "changes" from v1.3.1 to v2. I've been testing by trying to SYNC the data from v1.3.1 to v2, and vise versa.



Dave, in 1.3 i had LR write out to xmp files for all my photos in one folder.   Then i copied the entire folder (as a precaution) into a LRbeta parent folder.  from v2beta, i then did a simple import of that copied folder into a new catalog.  v2 read all my keywords, maintained the keyword heirarchy, and showed all the changes i made in 1.3--including the before and after snapshots.

35  Software Discussions / Lightroom / Re: Lightroom 2 workflow? on: April 04, 2008, 05:48:04 AM
I've only messed with it briefly -- no pubs here with wifi, you see -- but going from 1.3 files with xmp sidecars, it looks like all the image changes (cropping, exposure, WB, etc) and heirarchal keywords carried over the v 2beta.   What's cool too is that it creates two "Snapshots" named Import and Import 2, with the first being the image before maninuplated in 1.3 and the latter being the image as reciped and imported into v2beta.   Pretty neat feature.

36  Software Discussions / Lightroom / Re: Lightroom 2 workflow? on: April 03, 2008, 08:33:39 AM
I'm wondering along the same lines:  will any image changes or keywording I do in beta 2 be unusable (or and unimportable) into v1.3/4 or the final version of LR2 -- or can I use XMP sidecars to ensure that files with keywords can be reimported into version 1.3/1.4/2?   I wouldn't be super upset if the imaging recipes don't carry forward using this method but if the keywords do that might be workable.   
37  Software Discussions / Lightroom / Re: Lightroom 2 workflow? on: April 02, 2008, 12:02:40 PM
FWIW, I think the major caveats Adobe put out about the lack of ability to import existing catalogs and to have the final version of 2.0 properly read any catalogs developed under the beta means that I'm not going to spend alot of time with the Beta.

There is some really cool stuff here but the DAM related stuff can only be well-tested with something like a full catalog and I won't have alot of time to run down that road with the beta if it's going to be a dead end.

I would hope that they could keep it this way for a month or so, gain confidence that there are no problems like there were with 1.4 and then -- if technically feasible -- at least enable the beta to take in 1.3 version catalogs. 

As an aside, I'm not sure why writing to xmp files wouldn't be a decent work around -- at least for the keywording -- but the Adobe folks are saying that's a no-go as well.

38  Software Discussions / Lightroom / Re: Best practice for associating derivatives with originals on: April 02, 2008, 11:57:07 AM
My current process is very dumbed down:

I catalog only the Originals (and virtual copies).  When I crank out specific .jpg output for particular jobs (or web etc), I have them include the keywords and they keep the root of the original file name (the camera generated sequence number), so I can find them via a search if needed.  I can keep those deriviatives around for a while in job folders or even delete them, with the thinking that I can simply reproduce them on demand if needed. 

As it is, my LR database shows all the different flavors of the deriviative (using virtual copies).  Most of my jpg derivatives would be different from the LR copies only by their final image size and perhaps any batch processing that I'm doing in PS (NR and local contrast and sharpening).   

For me, a hobbyist, this system is easy to keep track of and I don't really have a strong need for instant access to the derivatives -- I can regenerate them by re-running my droplet batches.  Note, that most of my processing is in LR and then just batch processing in PS.   However, if I have some images that required lots of time invested with layer work and such, then I would reimport them into LR as a full res jpg -- but that's a small pct of my images.

This method wouldn't work for everyone but might be good enough for others in my (hobby) situation.
39  Software Discussions / Lightroom / Re: LR/iView workflow on: March 19, 2008, 05:31:52 AM
To second that, you could just access the images from iView but open them in LR.
40  DAM Stuff / Keywords and Controlled Vocabulary / Re: Is there max. number of keywords? on: March 09, 2008, 09:03:41 PM
Actually, I was using a script in EM to change catalog sets into keywords.  I think that it didn't carry over everything.  I don't actually have images with that many keywords however, i just wanted to use one image as a "keyword mule" -- so I could set up my heirarchies before having a full library, but it was not big deal to just send all the images over and then do it.
41  DAM Stuff / Keywords and Controlled Vocabulary / Is there max. number of keywords? on: March 08, 2008, 01:45:47 PM
Is there a maximum number of keywords that be contained within an image file?   

I seem to be hitting a max of 55.  No, I am not insane -- why do you ask? Wink

Here's the deal, while migrating from EM to LR I'm using a test image to load all my keywords into one image file and then importing that.  And I'm using that to set up all the keyword heirarchies before I bring over the rest of the images.

It looks like only 55 keywords are making the trip.  Not sure if its the script or the capacity of the image file.   

It's an easy work around, but now I'm just curious:  is there a limit to the number of keywords that can be in a file?

42  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: Mac Migrate Issues on: March 07, 2008, 06:47:26 AM
It seemed to work fairly well. Not quite done brining over all my apps (MS Office, PS, and PS Elements) but it seemed to go fairly smoothly and I can see where it left alot of crap behind (you know, like all those trial runs of Shoebox, or SuperAudio Whatever etc.).

Here's what I did:

1.   Went on my old computer (actually a clone of it on an external harddrive) and made a list of all the programs I wanted to move over. Really, even though I was maxed out on an 80GB harddrive, there were only about 8 or 10 programs that i really needed to see again.  Then I wrote down all of the usernames and product keys for them onto a piece of paper -- just in case.

2.   I followed the instructions here.

3.   The above link seems to get the job mostly done, however-- unless I'm crazy -- it seems to leave out one important element:  you also need to copy over the applications folders from the main Applications (!).   Doing those two things pretty much took care of it, and even brought over my passwords and bookmarks for Safari and Firefox.   

4.   For one application (Bibble), it didn't come over cleanly but rather than trying to troubleshoot I just downloaded it from their website and typed in my product key from the list I had made.  No worries.  And that list also came in handy b/c I was able to activate the full Noise Ninja plug in for Bibble using the NN product key.

Not to jinx myself, but the manual migration wasn't a big deal at all and I would do it again with no worries.

One final note:  jaysus, the new machine is fast!!!  Why didn't someone tell me that the reason I am such a cranky punk on these forums is b/c my old laptop was a dog?!


p.s. Speaking of bleeding edges, I also loaded the beta version of Expression Media 2 --  and it looks like they have been gainfully employed.  It even offers options to load from iPhoto libraries so things may be looking up a bit.  I don't know if I'm going to jump back into EM but as I reload and clean up my picture library on the new machine the EM file handling features will come in handy, which is one of the program's strengths as Peter has suggested.

43  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: Mac Migrate Issues on: March 06, 2008, 07:35:03 AM
Thanks Peter.  I'm updating the clone of the drive as we speak and will try again tonight.

BTW -- if the Migration Assistant chokes on the clone as well, would it be advisable to manually copy over the user directory and library stuff instead?  I've seen some writeups on this on general forums but not with a focus on DAM.  Should be interesting.....  My photo library will be the easiest.
44  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Mac Migrate Issues on: March 05, 2008, 10:39:16 PM
This might be a bit outside of DAM issues, but damn.... has anyone else recently had to migrate from a PowerBook (or older Mac) to a new MacBook/Pro -- with some success?

I'm trying to use Migration Assistant and it keeps crapping out once it gets down to about "53 minutes left."   I've been all over the Mac sites and have seen others with problems like this but no solutions (firmware seems okay, etc.).    And that was after 45 mins (30 mins of it waiting) on the phone with Apple.   After 6 hours of crap, and lots of net research, I return to the one place where folks provide answers....

So.....anyone have any advice?

45  DAM Stuff / DNG / Re: DNG conversion: a most basic question on: March 05, 2008, 03:02:25 PM

One part that I don't understand is this:   If the DNG process doesn't do some portion of the rendering (using ACR or something) -- and the RAW data remains unchanged and uninterpretted -- then why would a RAW converter that is unable to render a raw image from a particular camera be able to render a DNG based on a RAW file from the same camera?  I mean, it seems that if the original RAW data is still what the converter is looking too -- but simply from within a DNG package -- then the converter still wouldn't be able to read it.  So, for example, when a program like Aperture touts that its use of DNG format will enable it to read RAW files from non supported cameras, it seems that this would only be possible b/c the DNG conversion process is walking the RAW file into some common ground that the program understands.   

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