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121  Software Discussions / iView MediaPro / Filtering with Catalog Fields on: January 21, 2007, 09:51:33 PM
I'm still doing my initial keywording and -- along the way -- I'm testing different searches using Organizer/Catalog Fields to make sure my set up makes sense.  When looking for photos of a particular person, I find that I may want to find pictures of "Kate" in "Austin" -- rather than all the pictures of Kate in my database.  That seems to be no problem because  using Catalog Fields and the Organizer I simply can click on "austin" in the Place Finder and then CMD:click on "kate" in the People annotation.  The green dots for both terms will appear and it will show only those photos that match BOTH terms, (i.e., I won't get pics of Kate in Kalamazoo, just when she's in Austin).

However....if I use the same method to find photos that have, say,  Kate and Jeff in them (both names in the People category) at the same time it will show me all photos that have either of those two persons in them.  In short, the CMD:click filtering seems to work between two annotation categories (e.g., Places and People) but not within a category (People).

I can see that both methods might be desirable in some instances but is there anyway to use an "and" type Catalog Field organizer 'query' (where all terms must be met) within an annotation type (e.g. People)?

BTW, I just figured out that I can do a proper search using the Find...function, but that isn't nearly as succinct as using the Organizer.

Any advice?

122  Software Discussions / iView MediaPro / Re: What's the maximum images iView can hold? on: January 19, 2007, 03:53:23 PM

I ran into the 1.5/2.0 Gig limit when I hit around 1.3 Gig.  It was during my initial setup and rebuilding of thumbnails etc. -- not through slow but steady addition of files -- so it's possible that the limit is affected by recent edits or changes....or something.  It's just one of those suspiciously organic computer things.  So, I'd second John's advice on cutting out well below the 2 gib limit and, for me, I'm cutting my catalogs off just past the 1 G limit.

123  Software Discussions / iView MediaPro / Re: Keywords in iView on: January 19, 2007, 03:48:49 PM

I think John Beardy (one of the moderators on this site) has done some scripts that do what you are talking about.  I haven't figured them out yet, myself, but it looks very promising.  This is something I came across over over on the iView forum:

124  DAM Stuff / Hardware Discussions / Re: Hard Drive recommendation? on: January 19, 2007, 03:42:56 PM
I've been happy with my Seagate too.   Before I bought it I checked out a bunch of online user reviews and started to wonder:  are there ANY drives that people are happy with?!  That is, the reviews are going to be 95% complaints for ANY drive -- why else would someone post a note about their harddrive -- so don't read them or you'll just get stressed out.   I got smart and called a friend of mine who supports computers and goes through a ton of drive installations -- he said Seagates (and a couple other brands that I can't remember) are solid so I went with it....and I also backup onto DVDs.  Wink  

125  Software Discussions / Choosing Software/Other DAM Applications / Re: Newbie experience with iView: Big Caution on: January 19, 2007, 09:46:05 AM
Thanks Edward.  With your (and Winston Churchhill's) encouragement, I'm going to work through it.   Smiley  Funny, it's (somehow) strangely liberating once you stop looking for the perfect program and just get down to business.   Once I split up into multiple catalogs I found that I can upgrade the thumbnails well enough.    Going to be working on keywording this weekend.   

Thanks again,
126  Software Discussions / Choosing Software/Other DAM Applications / Planning ahead with IPTC on: January 17, 2007, 11:14:45 AM
In short, I'm just beginning to enter new IPTC data in iView and have a quick question for setting up my IPTC conventions for the future (that is, if I want to migrate to a new program later):   Are there any of the current standard IPTC fields that I might want stay away from now because they might not be supported by other programs down the road?  For example, should I go ahead and populate the city and state fields or would it be better to simply put that info into the keywords field?   I'm asking b/c it seems that many programs don't offer full IPTC access to all fields and this may/may become come more prominent with use of xmp conventions.

Hope I'm not confusing the issue, but the basic question is should I lump all the stuff I would want to search on into the keywords fiield or are there a few (all?) of the IPTC fields that I can be confident will be around to stay?

127  Software Discussions / Choosing Software/Other DAM Applications / Re: Ugggh, the choices. Any suggestes on software for my use? on: January 17, 2007, 10:57:39 AM

For image editing, I've been very happy with Bibble (  I've been using their 4.9d version for about a year -- does good RAW conversion, handles .jpgs etc. and plenty of bells and whistles plus very simple batch processing.  They have outstanding customer support and a great forum group.   It doens't do much for image managment but has very simple and customizable batch processing so it would easily feed into the folders you set up.   I'm still setting up my DAM end but plan on using Bibble for editing, with my image managment program doing the keywording.

Also, they are planning a major new release (spring??) and buyers now would be eligible for upgrade.

Hope this helps.
128  Software Discussions / Choosing Software/Other DAM Applications / Re: Newbie experience with iView: Big Caution on: January 17, 2007, 10:52:28 AM
Hey John,
Thanks for the reply -- and encouragement.   It looks like I'll be sticking with it, at least for now through syncing with IPTC/keywords, which seems to be a strength (that is, it can write to the orginal files so I can easily migrate away from it later if Expression Media doesn't pan out).  My options on the Mac are pretty limited as it is.   Last night I spent some time testing out a program called MediaboardOne -- which imported much more quickly than iView and seems to be well-integrated with other Mac stuff but there is no forum communiyy and their handling of IPTC in/out is still unclear.   If I hadn't already sunk the $140 into this, I might have given Extensi Portfolio a run -- it seems about as robust as iView but with some of the creature comforts of other programs (smart folders for example)....Cumulus/MediaDex is another option but, let's face it, I've already spent too much time away from my photos.  Time to move on....  Undecided

The big challenges that I anticipate working through on iView are:

1.  Thumbnail workaround.  I'll try the 1280 medium that you suggested -- or I might be able to go higher now that I'm broken up into multiple catalogs.   But in addition to the RAW and DERIVATIVE folders on my external HD, I might need to keep a third directory on my laptop -- say a lower res version of the "deriavatives" file -- which I could point iView at when I'm on the road.  My hope is that that way I could have access to the fuller res versions for display etc. w/o eating up the harddrive. 

2.  Keywords and Syncing.  I'm start working through keywording my entier libary over the weekend.  Right now the plan is to assume that I'll apply the keywords to all the RAW files, then run new derivatives off of them, which would carry forward with the IPTC data.  I will lose some of my previous edits that way, but I can live with that. I'll add the most highly rated "previously created deriviatives" also into the Derivative folder (with a version suffix) to limit the edits that I'll lose.   And since I've been reserving most of my "most tweaked" images aside for now (just started shooting Raw regularly a few months ago), so I can import them properly later after I figure everything out.  

What I'm still not clear on is whether the images in the RAW diretory and the images in the DERIVATIVES directory have any official relationship to each other in iView?  I think the answer is 'no' -- that the user has to create separate folders, populates the IPTC fields separately etc. and that iView then just 'points' to those folders.   Is that pretty much the case?

Really, this whole DAM field right now is pretty nuts but I think I just need to grin and bear it and get back to the photos -- that's pretty much that case, too, right?  Wink

Thanks again for your help,

129  Software Discussions / Choosing Software/Other DAM Applications / Newbie experience with iView: Big Caution on: January 15, 2007, 11:36:56 PM
I'm just coming off three days of struggling with iView-- to create my initial setup with about 5,000 images.  As a newbie, I thought I'd pass along my experience.  In short, I think iView was a mistake for me.  Admittedly, I haven't spent a great deal of time with the software but have already come up against some pretty basic limitations, quirks, and bad omens.  My two cents, just the big issues that have have brought me buyer's remourse:

1.  Poor product support.   As in, completely MIA.  I understand that they are in the process of preparing a new release (and a switchover to Expression media), but their support pages are primarily a nested loop of dead ends.  Their user forum seems to be not very well traveled by their staff.  If you ever tried to cancel AOL and enjoyed it, you'll feel at home with this support.  The product is not even listed in the MS Knowledgebase.  The DAM forum and other listserves offer good support but the company itself (Microsoft isn't lacking resources are they?) leaves the user hanging in the wind.  Yes, I understand that the product was recently acquired by MS and is sort of between releases, but you'd think they'd be able to do better.  I hate to be so negative about this, but the level of support is what one might expect by a struggling upstart--not a well-reviewed product that now has MS backing.  I made some assumptions when I chose this product and they turned out to be wrong.  Big disappointment.

2.  2 gig catalog limit.  Apparently, a single catalog cannot be larger than 2GB (or 1.5), according to other posters on this forum.  You will not find this mentioned in the 200 p. manual, however, or on the iView support forum.  And you wont' think to look for such a limitation until you get the dreaded "couldn't save the catalog" error after 6 hours of processing and work.  Now, I can live with the technical limitations of any product, but the fact that this wasn't mentioned in the lit is a problem that leads the user off a cliff (the "cliff" being a big waste of half a day to redo catalogs). can work around this by breaking up your catalogs in some way....

....but then your search options become a lot less useful.   That's a VERY big deal, since to search on some terms you would have to do searches in multiple catalogs (e.g., search for all red cars in in the 2003 catalog, and in 2004, and in 2005...).  And it also points up a third problem that, had I known, probably would have steered me away from the product.

3.  Thumbnails.  The max image size for thumbnails is 1280, but this will create a catalog file that is likely to exceed the allowed size limit of 2GB.  For me, just 5,000 images were enough to cause a catalog size of 1.3 GB and triggered the catalog save error.   Some posts have asked why a person would want thumbnails that big.  One word answer: laptop.  I want to be able to have full slideshow type use of my images while I'm in the field -- while the full size files reside on an external harddrive back home.  Not an uncommon setup.  But a 1280 pixel image won't even fill the screen.   So, if you are expecting iPhoto type slide shows that actually cover the whole screen you are out of luck.

4.  No "smart" or "dynamic" folders.   That's right, unlike other DAM software (e.g, iMatch) and even iPhoto and iTunes you can't setup catalogs or shoot sets that automatically update based on keywords.  You'll have to rerun searches manually.  This was a shocker, since the above consumer oriented programs have had this basic functionallity for years.  And, again, although you can do a "find" operation across multiple catalogs, you can't use the same type of search filters across catalogs.  Very limited.

In short, I'm left stunned that a pro-level program lacks some of the basic functionality of consumer level products; that the support provided by the largest computer company in the world is so lacking; that the program cost $140; and that the program was so well reviewed in multiple venues.   I understand that the Expression Media upgrade will be coming out this spring and the (free) upgrade played a role in my decision.  I'm hopeful that that release will solve these issues, but I remain concerned b/c so many of the above seem to be resulting from a "mail it in" type attitude from the company. I'm hoping they'll get re-committed with the upgrade, but we'll see. 

I am sorry to be so negative about this product -- especially with my rather limited experience with it.  But I don't think I'm off base.  The current version might have advantages that I'm not aware of but I would suggest considering the above when making a purchase decision.

Frank G
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