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Print Page - DNG converting after iView import and catalog?

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Software Discussions => iView MediaPro => Topic started by: piratejabez on March 22, 2006, 03:33:54 PM



Title: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: piratejabez on March 22, 2006, 03:33:54 PM
Peter & Forumites-
Is there a way to convert iView-cataloged RAW files to DNG that automatically retains the cataloging information?  As my system contains mostly CR2s (as well as some DCRs and RAFs), I am hesitant to write the metadata to the RAW file, to prevent risk of corruption.  But I would like to replace our RAW catalog with DNGs (once we convert them) as smoothly as possible.  I noticed the AppleScript Duplicate Annotations may come in handy, but it sounds like I would also have to manually import all the DNGs and remove all the RAWs, which is extra work I'd like to avoid.  If anyone has done this, any advice would be welcome.

Cory Schoolland (on behalf of Robert Houser: www.roberthouser.com (http://www.roberthouser.com))

ps- great workshop last night, Peter (SF); it was a privaledge to be able to attend.  I understand it's hard to crunch down everything into a few hours for such a wide audience range (digital-savvy to beginners, those who've read your book and those who haen't, &c); it may be a good idea to crunch down even further in the beginning, and perhaps leave a little more time for Q&A.  Just my thoughts; thanks!


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 25, 2006, 02:25:00 PM
Try this (on duplicate files first).

Sync annotations to RAW, convert to DNG, drop in new catalog.  All your annotations should show up, including catalog sets.  Anything missing form your result?
Peter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: johnbeardy on March 26, 2006, 02:16:29 AM
PC users of iView can user Brian Vallelunga's DNG Converter Re-Importer from http://brian.vallelunga.com/code/iview/. This automates the DNG converter from iView and I'd be surprised if the same couldn't be done on the Mac.

John



Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: piratejabez on March 26, 2006, 09:38:27 PM
Is is absolutely safe to sync annotations with CR2 files?
Cory


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 27, 2006, 06:31:29 AM
I'll ask iView to confirm, but here is my understanding.  Since Canon does not document file structure or provide SDK, iView will only sync Canon metadata on the Mac platform where it can make use of the resource fork (does not exist on the Windows platform.)

I don't believe that you introduce a possibility of corruption by doing this, but I am not absolutely positive.  I do know that iView offers the ability to delete the resource fork, so you should be able to strip it if it were to lead to unintended consequences.

Peter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: piratejabez on March 27, 2006, 11:11:25 AM
Here's another thing- when I sync annotations, it seems to not embed Catalog Set or custom field info, both of which are very important to me.
Cory


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: Joe Reifer on March 27, 2006, 11:43:51 AM
Hi Cory -

I have been working on a new DNG workflow using iView only (no Bridge), and have some of the same questions/issues. Here's what I've found:

 - I don't plan to continue syncing annotations to CR2 files (on a Mac) because I'm worried about long-term file integrity.
 - I tried adding bulk metadata, labels, and star ratings to CR2 files in iView, adjusting the higher rated CR2s in Camera Raw, and then converting to DNG - next I updated the folder with the CR2s so that the corresponding DNGs showed up. Then I ran the Duplicate Annotations script, which copied over the metadata nicely, but does not move over the labels and star ratings.

From reading on the boards on the iView site, the MetaSync script won't move over star ratings either. I have emailed Scott Mackie who wrote MetaSync to see what the current status is. The Duplicate Annotations script was written for iView 2.6, which was before iView had star ratings. Not sure if there are plans to update that script.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that my preferred iView only workflow is not quite possible yet, which is a bummer because I really like the new Lightbox in iView 3.02 for reviewing/rating images. I will probably move to a Bridge workflow for bulk metadata, labels and star ratings, then convert to DNG, and finally import into iView (similar to DAM Book workflow - thanks Peter!).

Hope this information helps.

Cheers,

Joe


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 27, 2006, 12:28:42 PM
Okay, I got some more information from Phil at iView.  He left for the day before everything got cleared up, but here is what I know so far.

It seems that the sync annotations command, when used with CR2 files is only doing the Resource Fork as I earlier outlined.  It further seems that this has not been updated with 3.0, and is only syncing the stuff that 2.6 did.  This means that it skips the ratings and labels, the new IPTC core data, and catalog sets.  I believe that they did not put further engineering into this because the information is not cross-platform, and is therefore kind of a hack.

The preferred method will be to convert to DNG and copy annotations to the new file.  Unfortunately, there does not seem to be an easy way to do this yet. (Try the script Beardy pointed out: that may do the trick).

I would expect that we will see some migration tools develop in the next little while that will make this easier.  If you need to migrate the old work now, then you will need to jump through some hoops (make a keyword for each Catalog Set, Sync, create sets From Keywords, for instance) to do the migration.  My best advice would be to hold off on the legacy migration if you can until the new tools are developed.  I'd expect to see some kind of new release in a month or two, and hopefully this will be a part of it.

Inn the meantime, as Joe points out, you can use the workflow outlined in the DAM Book for new material, and everything should work fine.
Peter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: johnbeardy on March 27, 2006, 12:49:46 PM
Peter

That script is Windows only. It's a compiled executable, but AFAIK it loops through the selected iView records and passes each raw file's path to the Adobe DNG converter using Windows "command line arguments". The script then catalogues the resulting dng file, tells iView to copy over the raw file's metadata, and iterates to the next raw file and sends its path to the converter. It's one by one. You'd have to replicate this process with the Mac and I'm pretty sure the converter's Mac version can also accept "command line arguments" but don't know the lingo - it'll obviously be something cooler. I've think I've seen Mac people discussing this at Adobe's DNG and scripting forums.

John


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 27, 2006, 02:36:08 PM
Yes, the DNG converter became command line scriptable on both platforms at the same time, 3.2, IIRC.
Peter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: piratejabez on March 27, 2006, 02:46:28 PM
Thanks guys for all your help; we have been implementing the workflow reccomended in the book, but the legacy file migration is somewhat time-sensitive.  I believe what we've settled on is exporting annotations to XMPs, and importing those with the DNGs into a new catalog.  Until other software breakthroughs are made (for Mac users), this seems to be working out alright.  Thanks again! Peter, you're the DAM master. (does that ever get old?)

Cory Schoolland
roberthouser.com (http://roberthouser.com)


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: Joe Reifer on March 28, 2006, 09:19:57 AM
Stop the Presses! I just got an email from Scott Mackie who wrote the MetaSync script. He let me know the latest version of MetaSync will sync Labels and Star Ratings. Haven't tested it yet, but sounds like it's worth a look. Didn't ask if it moved Catalog Set info.

http://www.smackie.org/Software/

Cheers,

Joe


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 28, 2006, 09:32:33 AM
Someone test it out and let us know.  This would be a great solution if it works.  Catalog Sets would be essential, in my view.
Peter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: dexter on March 28, 2006, 12:28:45 PM
Peter,
       I wasn't able to get Catalog Sets to sync. Annotations, ratings, labels, etc, all work provided the images in the destination catalog have the same filename root as the images in the source catalog. Because I used the derivative naming convention in the DAM book, I had to remove e.g Master from the derivative file, sync with MetaSync, then rename.

..Dexter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: smackie on March 28, 2006, 12:46:31 PM
I wasn't able to get Catalog Sets to sync. Annotations, ratings, labels, etc, all work provided the images in the destination catalog have the same filename root as the images in the source catalog. Because I used the derivative naming convention in the DAM book, I had to remove e.g Master from the derivative file, sync with MetaSync, then rename.

As you've found out, I don't sync the catalog sets across. This might be possible to do - I'll check into it. I seem to remember some fun with this area back in MediaPro 2.x release but I haven't tried it again since then.

I'm currently rewriting MetaSync for a 2.0 release - if there's a feature you'd like to see (in addition to catalog sets), then let me know. From the sounds of it, you'd like a far more flexible filename match. What exactly would it need to do?

Scott...


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: Joe Reifer on March 28, 2006, 01:07:10 PM
Hi Scott -

Glad you've joined the DAM forum. My wishlist for MetaSync 2.0 would be to have the capability to sync files with the same root name in the same folder. I would import my CR2 RAW files into iView, add star ratings, labels, and metadata. Based on star ratings I would open the CR2s in Camera RAW and adjust. Then I would convert the CR2s to DNG, update the folder in iView so the DNGs show up next to the CR2s, and then sync the CR2 metadata with the new DNG files. Once the metadata has moved from the CR2 to the DNG, I would sync annotations in iView.

Many thanks,

Joe


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: dexter on March 28, 2006, 01:22:05 PM
Scott
       Thanks for the work put into MetaSync. I'm sure that I'm not alone in saying that your efforts are appreciated. As Peter pointed out Catalog Sets would be a useful feature. The filename match got me only because I used previously converted derivative files with e.g. Master, B&W, appended to the original filename (before the extension), for testing. One can easily save derivatives without the relative tags, run MetaSync and rename.

Thanks
...Dexter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 28, 2006, 03:34:28 PM
I would also like the ability to sync files with the same root name, but different appendages.  Maybe you could define a string length to compare (in my case, Krogh_060325_1234 would be a string length 17 characters) and ignore everything after the defined string length.

Peter


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: AlanDunne on March 28, 2006, 08:02:52 PM
Peter,

this feature (same root, different appendages) is exactly what I have been looking for. I fully support this one!. I matches my convention for derivative naming.

Cheers ... Al


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: smackie on March 29, 2006, 01:55:52 AM
Okay, enhanced filename matching sounds like something I should add for MetaSync 2.0... :D

Just to be clear here, folks want the ability to be able to match something like MyFilenameRoot_master.psd to MyFileNameRoot.dng? It's not too hard to add this but I'll try to make the match as flexible as possible. The other feature I'm adding to 2.0 is the ability to "pre-flight" the synchronization, which meshes nicely with a less exact match (i.e. I can prompt the user with the expected match to make sure it's what you expect).

I'll also take a look at copying across the set info.

MetaSync 2.0 is a pretty large rewrite. You'll be able to save existing matches to config files so that you can keep favorite or often-used sync parameters without having to re-enter them (or share them with others). If I get the chance, I'll also add finer granularity syncs (so you can synchronize only the fields you want).

Is there any interest in a catalog "diff" function? This would allow you to match items across catalogs and, rather than sync, show the differences in metadata between the two media items. I thought this might be useful for checking catalogs.

Cheers

Scott...


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: piratejabez on March 29, 2006, 10:10:16 AM
Go for it, Scott; sounds great.  Thanks so much for all the hard work you're doing; when should we be looking for the 2.0 release?
Cory


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: smackie on March 29, 2006, 04:55:39 PM
when should we be looking for the 2.0 release?

Cory,

I've started work on the release so I expect it should be ready in a week or two.

Scott...


Title: Re: DNG converting after iView import and catalog?
Post by: peterkrogh on March 29, 2006, 10:08:48 PM
Scott,
Diff sounds useful.
Peter