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Print Page - Expression Media SP1

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Software Discussions => Media Pro & Expression Media => Topic started by: roberte on September 12, 2007, 07:39:30 PM



Title: Expression Media SP1
Post by: roberte on September 12, 2007, 07:39:30 PM
Hi,

You can get Expression Media SP1 here:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/download.aspx?key=media

What's new here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/941834/

And bug fixes listed here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/941795/

And more good stuff coming soon:

http://tinyurl.com/2v9ohb

-- Robert Edwards.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: frankgindc on September 12, 2007, 08:08:55 PM
2Q of FY08 is not "soon" enough in my book.  I waited (semi) patiently for the "upgrade" that was to be Expression Media.  I know I sound like that guy in that Beckett play, but I'm tired of waiting.  I think that we should leave.  No really.   Shouldn't we?   

Honestly.  Everytime EM delivers what they seem to think is good news, it's a downer.  Really, we're talking two years from the time that MS acquired EM to the first, possible, hoped for, bona fide upgrade to it?  We'll be waiting 9 mos from now to find out that that might be.  Seems like I've been there with these guys before.  Now that's not a dig on MS b/c I don't see that it's gotten any worse in this respect, just more of the same. 

Nuts.

Frank



Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on September 13, 2007, 05:46:14 PM
Robert-
A few questions. (I bought iView while free upgrade to EM still available, and have both iView and EM installed on my PC-Vista. I registered the iView and the EM).

1. I didn't get any notice about the service pack 1. Were registered users supposed to have been notified, do you know? Will there be customer notification of version 2, I wonder, or do we have to find out for ourselves?

2. Are instructions for users (not trial versions) actually requiring an uninstall of EM, and THEN an install of the new version of EM? Or are these instructions for trial users (then what do non-trial users do?)
----------
(from instructions)
You will need a Windows Live ID to download this Trial. If you do not have a Windows Live ID, please visit Windows Live and create one before attempting to download.
Windows Vista™ or XP

   1. Please uninstall any earlier version of Expression Media.
   2. Download and install Apple QuickTime® 7.1.5 or later
   3. Download and install Expression Media (13.3 MB)
   4. If asked for a product key, click the Continue button for a 60-day trial.
----------

3. And what is Windows Live, and if you happen to know, why am I having to set up an account?

4. Just curious: Are folks who are using iView (and who have, but are not using EM right now) going to do the Service Pack 1 upgrade? Or just wait, keep using iView, and when EM v2 comes out, then update?

I am troubled by this complexity and lack of clarity- if I uninstall my EM and there is a problem, then I have to argue my way through the microsoft jungle to get going again. How is it that Microsoft can't simply do an upgrade like every other piece of software they have? (I don't see anyone having to totally uninstall IE when an upgrade is announced).

I think iView is excellent, and I am hopeful for EM as an application. I just don't understand the way Microsoft is handling things. I see that the EM blog is very breezy and chatty; yet the application and administration of EM is very complex and rather confusing.

Thanks for any thoughts.
Bill


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: frankgindc on September 13, 2007, 07:06:05 PM
Bill,
For what it's worth, the SP seemed to download and install for me okay, without doing the windows live thing.   

One interesting side note though:  yesterday before I was aware of the SP1, when I went to open EM it gave me one of those "your trial period has ended" messages that I've heard about.  I had to fish out my old key from the email I got with the upgrade to EM several months ago and then it worked fine.  And the upgrade went fine.  I had been using the program the last few days with no problem so I don't know if it was just coincidence that I got the product key error the same day they released the SP or what.  In any case, I think the new SP includes notice about upgrades.

Frank


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: roberte on September 13, 2007, 07:56:21 PM
Hi Bill,

1. I don't know how Microsoft plan to announce SP1 except by word of mouth at this stage. One added feature for SP1 is auto-update. In Vista I believe this is tied to Windows Update. If any patches are released you should be notified. Version 2 will be a major upgrade so expect a song and dance when released :).

2. This is a service pack so should install straight over your current installation. Certainly it will for Mac users.

3. Windows Live is a bloody annoying way of Microsoft keeping track of us. Thankfully your clients won't need it to use the xMedia Catalog Reader.

I'm sure a more transparent way of accessing xMedia via the web and its support is on Microsoft's roadmap. Information for those used to iView is currently too scattered and lost inside the Expression Suite website.

Bottom line: If iView MediaPro 3.1.3 is working for you stay with it. iView still has more scripts, plugins, documentation, and free support. If you have issues with iView as I have then go for Expression Media 1 with SP1.

-- Robert.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on September 13, 2007, 10:08:56 PM
Robert/Frank-
Thanks for the useful replies. (I really appreciate this aspect of the DAM forum- a knowledgeable group of folks who really help anyone with questions. Very refreshing).

A few things:
1. I followed links on service pack, but I keep seeing reference to 'trial period'. Did both of you see this? It still looks like they want me to uninstall EM before installing SP1. (Perhaps I am missing the proper page to install SP1 from- both Robert's reference and a Google search leading to the MS install page mention 'trial period' and have instructions that include 'uninstall first').

2. I was wondering what issues Robert had run into using iView. I am using it on a Dell PC, Vista, with two catalogs of about 3K images each, and I haven't encountered anything. Just curious (...so I'll know what to brace myself for!)

3. I will be following Robert's suggestion of continuing to work with iView; this has been my plan from the start when buying iView w/ EM free upgrade. Stay with the mature product until the little tyke (EM) gets through puberty. (Now that's a scary analogy, as I think about it).
Thanks again.
Bill


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on September 15, 2007, 06:43:48 AM
Does Windows Live only use Hotmail as the 'account' email? I see no way to avoid signing up if I want to reach Service pack 1. Perhaps someone with more 'pull' with Microsoft can mention how annoying it is to be obliged to use Hotmail simply to participate in product upgrades.

(Oh well, enough griping- if there is a way to avoid getting tangled up with Windows Live, please provide info.)
Thanks- Bill


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: ianw on September 15, 2007, 07:40:52 AM
Does Windows Live only use Hotmail as the 'account' email?

I use a non-Microsoft email account for Windows Live without any problems - I did have a Hotmail account years ago but they deleted it due to inactivity!

Ian


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on September 28, 2007, 04:53:25 AM
Hi-
One more 'revisit' of this SP1 business. I have still not installed SP1- frankly, I am put off by the need to uninstall EM in order to get the SP1 installed, coupled with this proliferation of references to 'trial period' when I have a registered copy of EM (from the 'free upgrade' period of iView).

If I uninstall EM, and there is a problem with my getting SP1 installed, is there anyone (email or phone-that is NOT $$ per incident) at MS I can contact- I have license key number for EM.

I agree with the posters in the EM thread (see below) that this EM-SP1 handling is amateurish and confusing.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.expression.media/browse_thread/thread/bcded44d0783c7c2/d6199caa348b3352?lnk=gst&q=service+pack&rnum=10#d6199caa348b3352

I'd also like to know: if I don't install SP1, will I still be able to do the Version 2 upgrade whenever it comes out? (I am comfortable using iView presently, but I don't want to lose EM upgrade potential because of my discomfort with SP1 install).

Thanks. Bill


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: mikeseb on September 28, 2007, 08:42:54 AM
I'm sure sorry I installed the service pack on my Mac system. Ever since, and despite uninstall/reinstall attempts, trying my xM catalog in my old iVMP, etc, I am stuck with a bug that causes odd characters to be appended to my custom field names, with additional characters appearing with each reopening of my catalog.

I've reported this to MS and have yet to hear back from someone substantively; my initial contact, who appeared willing to help, has been on vacation for 2 wks and his pleas to his colleagues to help me have been ignored. He mentioned that mine was the second report of this bug he'd heard of.

So I'd definitely NOT install the service pack. It has somehow altered my catalog or my custom-field data files irrevocably.

I've never been a reflexive MS basher, but their ham fisted attempts to ruin iVMP have me frustrated. I'm going to give MS until version 2 to get their act together. Then I'm sorrowfully abandoning iVMP/xM for something that actually works, and which may have a future. Maybe by then Lightroom's DAM capabilities will have matured sufficiently to make it a viable DAM application; or Portfolio will have fixed the annoyances that caused me to abandon it for iVMP two years ago.

Certainly reinforces Peter's constant admonitions to adopt a DAM strategy that can survive serial monogamy with a number of DAM applications.

Mike


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on September 28, 2007, 09:40:40 AM
Mike-
Sorry to hear of your difficulties- this is exactly the sort of thing I've been concerned about.

In my opinion, the core problem with this whole EM business is not that a Service Pack is required; nor is it even the clunky 'uninstall, then install' mechanism. The key issue is, I feel, the inability to communicate with anyone from Microsoft, especially via email or online. Here you have a new product, with a steep 'finish the software' curve, and users cannot get specific questions resolved in a timely and interactive way.

I see plenty of companies whose email 'loop' with customers occurs within 24 or 48 hours; I see 'biggies' like Dell using 'online chat' (although you should have a paperback handy while you wait for someone to get to you). I understand that Microsoft is a big company, and they're busy and don't want to be deluged with individual Q's.

But- while 'insulation from customers' works as a strategy for a mature, relatively bug-free product (I want to say 'like Vista, or Office 2007'...perhaps), this is simply the wrong approach for a product which was buggy out of the box, where instructions for fixing leave confusion (like the constant '30 day test' reference), and where the 'volume' of user dissatisfaction seems to be getting louder and louder.

I, too, am not a Microsoft basher. Usually when I get cranky over a Windows or Office peculiarity, I remind myself that these are pretty complex pieces of software, and I am actually amazed things work as well as they do. This EM thing is a marketing/customer relations issue- I'm starting to think that Microsoft needed to say they had a product (to complete the Expressions 'suite' of apps), but they are missing the point that they have a bunch of users (who want the product to succeed) who are not being supported properly.

(To torment the 'serial monogomy' analogy further, this looks a bit like a suitor who ardently, passionately woos his/her partner... and then once having 'won' him/her, loses interest and ignores the partner...

...this frequently leads to divorce.)
Bill



Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: roberte on September 28, 2007, 04:45:39 PM
Hi Mike,

I'm going to give MS until version 2 to get their act together.

I think you're being overly generous! We'll see a lot of new/updated apps next year before xMedia 2 is released. Microsoft desperately need to start a conversation with ex-iView and xMedia users - before they become ex-xMedia... uncanny.

-- Robert.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: mikeseb on September 28, 2007, 06:31:04 PM
I'm so annoyed with MS right now that, if there were an easy way to get my Custom Fields, People, and Catalog Set information into LR I'd probably make the leap and just ride it out until something better comes along.

I received an automated email response indicating that the status of my issue had been changed to "resolved", with a link to the item; upon getting there and navigating the annoying log-in screen (why I have to log in escapes me), there was nary a scrap of information present actually telling me what the solution IS. How hard can this be?

Trouble is, I've tried most of the Mac-compatible DAM applications out there, and have found the iVMP interface by far the easiest to use--keywording is a breeze, for instance--and I have come to rely heavily on my Custom Field information. The Catalog Set paradigm is most useful also; and I really like how easy it is to select groups of images based on CF data. I have custom fields set up for a variety of information, like film type, developer and concentration, development time, EI, etc, since I shoot quite a bit of film for personal work. Searching this info is a breeze in iVMP/xM.

What a hassle. I think MS has probably screwed the pooch in the eyes of iVMP users like me. I'm gonna make a run at the first attractive alternate choice that comes along, and leave the old wife home alone! :)


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on September 28, 2007, 06:51:10 PM
Well, I consider myself pretty well up on metaphor and analogy, but I've got to say that:

I think MS has probably screwed the pooch in the eyes of iVMP users like me.

This is a new one on me- but I certainly get it! (I wonder who gets custody of the dog in the divorce...)
Bill


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: johnbeardy on September 29, 2007, 12:27:49 AM
Now that is taking my DAM as serial monogamy analogy in a direction not even I could have imagined!

John


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: Dierk on September 29, 2007, 12:33:42 AM
ex-xMedia... uncanny.

Would that make us the Uncanny Non-X-Media-Men?


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: mikeseb on September 29, 2007, 06:15:59 AM
Bill, John, and Dierk:

This MS thing has me worked into a lather. I reached into my bag of "metaphors and aphorisms", and out popped that one. Couldn't remember where I first heard it, so Google time:

"Screwed the pooch," meaning "made a terrible mistake," is a
cleaned-up paraphrase that author Tom Wolfe popularized. Wolfe's book
"The Right Stuff," which dealt with the early years of America's
manned space program, used the phrase "screwed the pooch" in
describing a calamitous error made by Mercury Astronaut Gus Grissom:

"But now - surely! - it was so obvious! Grissom had just screwed the
pooch! In flight tests, if you did something that stupid, if you
destroyed a major prototype through some lame-brain mistake such as
hitting the wrong button - you were through! You'd be lucky to end up
in Flight Engineering. Oh, it was obvious to everybody at Edwards [Air
Force Base] that Grissom had just f****d it, screwed the pooch, that
was all."

(from page 230 of "The Right Stuff," by Tom Wolfe)

The original military term was "f****d the dog," which generally referred to
military men goofing off on the job, rather than to catastrophic
errors:

"Screw the Pooch
The phrase screw the pooch, meaning to mess up, commit a grievous
error, was made famous in Tom Wolfe's book The Right Stuff. The phrase
is a euphemism from US military slang. The original expression was
f**k the dog and meant to waste time, to loaf on the job.

F**k the dog...appears in print for the first time in 1935, but in
1918 another euphemistic version, feeding the dog, appears. The
original sense dates to 1918. Over the decades, the meaning shifted to
the current sense and the screw the pooch wording took the place of
the original phrasing."


Is it any wonder I never get much done?



Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: jimtron on October 08, 2007, 10:47:24 PM
Quote
I understand that Microsoft is a big company, and they're busy and don't want to be deluged with individual Q's.

Big company or small, a product should have good customer support. If Microsoft doesn't have the knowledge or resources to give proper support to EM, then they shouldn't have purchased Iview. If any company has deep  pockets it's Microsoft; I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't have their act together with EM.

I've been using Iview for a long time, and it's an important part of my workflow. This is very frustrating and seemingly unnecessary. I guess they have their best minds working on Zune.  ::)


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: billseymour on October 09, 2007, 04:52:29 AM
Perhaps Microsoft is working on the ability to edit photos on Zune using Expression Media
...explaining why both products are having issues...

Bill

(Have you notice that Microsoft seems taken with the 'odd letters' of the Scrabble board:

Z- Zune   X- XM- Expression Media

What is next? Microsoft Qffice ?)


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: johnbeardy on October 09, 2007, 05:27:20 AM
Maybe because a more ego-driven company uses "i" for its prefix?

John


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: jimtron on October 09, 2007, 10:02:58 PM
Maybe because a more ego-driven company uses "i" for its prefix?

John

I'd take an ego-driven company with products that work well, and are well supported, over a more humble company with support and technical problems. I'm not sure if you're referring to iView or Apple, but iView was doing pretty well before MS bought it, and I haven't heard too many complaints about Aperture  or other Apple products (IIRC, Apple has won awards for their customer support).


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: Dierk on October 09, 2007, 11:51:51 PM
He was surely referring to Apple, probably the most ego-driven company ever; their products work as well as others but not better. The support by Apple, IME, is abysmal but they share that with a lot of companies in the computer business. Fortunately even hard-core Apple fans get a bit more realistic lately [iPhone anybody, iTunes/iPod?].

Nevertheless, and leaving aside that iView had its problems, too, when it came to timely new versions, I share your sentiment about Microsoft's handling of Expression Media. It is disheartening to hear that internally progress and aims are quite well while the customers only get promises. I had so hoped MS would show bashers what they [MS] are capable of ...


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: jimtron on October 10, 2007, 11:48:11 AM
I guess we should avoid this Apple vs. MS debate. But EM really does seem like a pain at this point. Just checking for the latest version is difficult.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: roberte on October 10, 2007, 01:53:14 PM
Hi Jim,

Check for updates is now included in the app.

-- Robert.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: mikeseb on October 10, 2007, 08:57:12 PM
Just to update everyone re my troubles with Expression Media SP1 on the Mac. Recall that after installing it I had a problem of strange characters being appended, with each close and reopen of my image catalog, to the ends of custom field names--interfering with the function of those custom fields.

Initial service response from MS was slow and disjointed, but I somehow found myself in contact with someone up the food chain named Anita who has been very helpful. Anita helped me get the SP cleanly removed from my system, allowing a reinstall of the original ExMedia application, which has resolved the problem and put me back to a very smoothly functioning, SP1-less square one.

She told me that engineers have found the cause of the problem, which is corruption of the vocabulary files containing custom field names and data choices therein. However, she is not certain whether the issue will warrant a high enough priority for a fix now, or later with version 2.

I guess this means that the SP is ineffective/dangerous for some number of people who installed it, and MS can't decide if they'll fix the "fix" before the next version! What the h--- have they done with my beloved iVMP?

I guess I'll carry on with my current install of ExMedia until version 2 comes out, at which time I can see whether ExMedia is moving forward or going down the tubes, relative to other DAM offerings at that time. With luck by then there will be an easy way to migrate my custom-field and catalog-set data out of ExMedia and into whatever DAM software is getting it done then.

Meanwhile, I'd reiterate my advice to avoid SP1 like the plague unless you're having specific problems it purports to be able to solve.

Mike S.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: jimtron on October 11, 2007, 04:43:28 PM
I've gone back to iView, as I was having trouble with EM and there didn't seem to be much if any advantage to using it over IV.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: Louie Sherwin on October 13, 2007, 09:52:37 PM
Hi Mike,

Sorry for you problems but I am glad that you finally got some help. I was curious if you are running Windows or MacOS? I have several custom fields so I am being rather cautious about starting to use EM.

-louie


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: mikeseb on October 14, 2007, 08:54:26 AM
thanks Louie. I'm on Mac OS latest version on an old PowerPC G4 tower. (Wife has given me several life options, with "get a new Mac" as the least palatable among them. :) )

I'm back to ExMedia version 1.0 and overall things are running well. My main ExMedia problem now is that the handy Custom File Info Panel--either John Beardsworth's modified iVMP version (which worked in the last version of iVMP and in ExMedia v.1.0), or the newer iteration that auto-installs with ExMedia--is not working consistently right in PS CS3.

Strangely, the panel works properly with raws and DNG's, but not with TIF files of some scanned film. For those, my custom-field, people, and catalog-set data are still written back to the image files, but for some reason now not showing up in the CFIP's. This must tie in somehow with my problems with custom-field names, resolved by stripping SP1 from my system.

One more thing I hope the MS people get around to fixing in ExMedia version 2.

Mike S.


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: jimtron on October 26, 2007, 04:55:12 PM
Hi Jim,

Check for updates is now included in the app.

-- Robert.

Swell; thanks.

- Jim



Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: Bill Lewis on January 03, 2008, 08:44:19 AM
Downloaded SP 1 this morning. Removed my edition of EM before downloading as per instructions and signed up with Windows Live. When the download was completed all I had was SP 1. Reinstalled EM and tried to install SP 1 but received an error message telling me SP 1 could not be installed because EM was missing or the patch was wrong. I was about to contact MS but decided to check this thread first. It would appear that I don't want SP 1 from some of the posts. Have been using iView with no real problems but thought I'd get EM up to date and experiment.

Running a PC with XP.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
    Bill


Title: Re: Expression Media SP1
Post by: johnbeardy on January 03, 2008, 09:51:15 AM
There's little advantage in using xM - I still use iView - but on Windows you should definitely have Sp1. There were some lousy bugs in the initial version.

John